Step Out Of Bounds ...

[BillyMac]

I know that we’ve already gone over this, but it was a small part of a long thread on all the rule changes and I wanted to make a single thread about it.

My local new rules meeting isn’t until Wednesday, October 18, 2023.

I was officiating an odd autumn in-district interscholastic middle school game last week. Since we haven’t had our local new rules meeting yet, nor have the coaches, we were told to only use the new bonus rule (fifth of quarter) and no other new rules (at least not until after our meeting).

At halftime, my partner, who wasn't aware of any of the rule changes, asked what they were. I quickly went through the list and then when I came to the new rule regarding stepping out of bounds I hesitated and stumbled, realizing that I really didn't understand the new rule.

2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rule Change

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation. Rationale: Allows a player to step out of bounds if they gain no advantage and penalizes a team only if they gain an advantage by leaving the court and returning to avoid a violation or to be the first to touch the ball.

9-3-3: Establishing that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation allows the game to continue without stoppage when the player’s actions did not create an advantage. When an advantage is gained by a player purposely leaving the court and being the first one to touch the ball or leaving the court to avoid a violation, an advantage is gained, and a violation has occurred.

Why the rule change?

Why wait for the touch inbounds?

We already have this rule:

9-3-3: A player must not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Or has it been deleted and replaced by above?

If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench) we can call the 9-3-3 violation as soon as we realize that he’s gained an advantage, and don’t have to wait for a ball touch inbounds. The player left the court for an unauthorized reason and gained an advantage. Violation!

Now if a player leaves the court due to his momentum, an authorized reason, and comes back and is the first to ball touch inbounds, that’s a still legal? Right?

I’d like to get this new rule straight in my mind before our local meeting so I know to ask pertinent questions.

In the earlier thread, JRutledge was kind enough to post the NCAA rule for comparison.

NCAA Rule Section 3 Player Out of Bounds

Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the
end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after returning to the playing court.
b. A player whose momentum causes that player to go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if that player reestablishes one foot inbounds prior to touching the ball.

NFHS Caseplays Player Out Of Bounds Leaving The Court

9.3.3 SITUATION A: A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket. RULING: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. (9-3-3)

9.3.3 SITUATION B: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen. RULING: The official shall call a violation on A3 as soon as he/she steps out of bounds. The ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred.

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

[SNIPERBBB]

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

NFHS being Silly NFHS. Now we have the situation where 9.3.3 B where you have L observing the player going OOB now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

Only reason I can think of for the change is it was being called too much or wrongly. Don't know if this will reduce the amount of times it is called but I can guarantee it would be called .much more wrongly that it will be called correctly.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

Thanks.

I never had any problems with the old rules.

The "momentum" rule was easy to enforce by ignoring.

Note: Unlike the NCAA, the NFHS doesn't mention "momentum".

Does that mean that we now have to call it if the "momentum" out of bounds player is the first to touch the ball after back in bounds? Has he gained an advantage if allowed to do so?

I've only observed the "going out of bounds to use a screen" rule called once in forty-four years. Never called it myself.

On a "going out of bounds to use a screen" situation, do we now have to wait for the first to touch the ball after back in bounds to call the violation?

It looks like the "avoid three seconds" rule is still in place.

Thank God for small favors.

[SNIPERBBB]

NFHS rule uses "own volition".

ART. 3 . . . A player shall not step out of bounds under the player's own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court or to avoid a violation. PENALTY:

[BillyMac]

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

... now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ...

A) A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

B) A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

Legal in A, illegal in B?

First to touch?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.



A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ...

A) A1 was holding(touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

B) A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

Legal in A, illegal in B?

First to touch?

Both a violation.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Both a violation.

The way I understood the interpreters presentation the other day A would be legal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The way I understood the interpreters predeythr other day A would be legal.

I am not sure what you mean by "interpreters predeythr" but in A it is legal if the never throw the ball to the player or throw it to another player first.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The way I understood the interpreters presentation the other day A would be legal.

Either your interpreter or your understanding of what was said is incorrect.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ... A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court

Wouldn't A2 be the second to touch the ball after returning to the court?

Wouldn't A1 be the first to touch the ball the ball after A2 returned to the court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wouldn't A2 be the second to touch the ball after returning to the court?

Wouldn't A1 be the first to touch the ball the ball after A2 returned to the court?

Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

Gotta agree with you but that's not what the rule states.

This certainly would be illegal.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ... A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court ...

I've got lot of questions regarding the wording of this new rule.

Hopefully some new casebook plays (I haven't gotten my new casebook yet), or new annual interpretations (due soon) will clear this up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

Or to prevent a player to go out of bounds and get a loose ball. Not as common but both situations fit under this rule.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We already have this rule:

9-3-3: A player must not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Or has it been deleted and replaced by above?

If the "old" 9-3-3 has been deleted, does that mean that this situation (below) is now legal if A3 is not the first to touch the ball?

A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen.

And that this situation (below) is still illegal?

A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

NFHS being Silly NFHS. Now we have the situation where 9.3.3 B where you have L observing the player going OOB now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

Only reason I can think of for the change is it was being called too much or wrongly. Don't know if this will reduce the amount of times it is called but I can guarantee it would be called .much more wrongly that it will be called correctly.

It matches it yup with the college rule and it's easy to enforce. And, imo, it's more fitting -- the old rule wasn't called because A didn't really gain an advantage if no one passed them the ball.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the "old" 9-3-3 has been deleted, does that mean that this situation (below) is now legal if A3 is not the first to touch the ball?

A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen.

And that this situation (below) is still illegal?

A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket.

Yes and Yes. The second case (no matter where it might be posted) is a three-second violation case, not a "going out of bounds" violation case.