Comments On The 2023-24 Rules Changes ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My take was specifically that the rule basically was not a change, it was simply a clarification and not even explained what "similar color" means. It did not say they had to share the same color ... Again, pretty much what the rule was before IMO unless they say it is more restrictive (which interpretation).

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It said "like color" and we'll both have to wait until the NFHS publishes the actual rule language and interpretation to find out what "like color" means.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I thought that I was sure what I'd do, but JRutledge, a great rules guy worth listening to, and not one to be ignored, has me questioning myself and looking forward to waiting until the NFHS publishes the actual rule language and interpretation to find out what "like color" means.

Now we know what "like color" means. And it is a rule change (NFHS but maybe not locally).

Comments: 3-4-5 — Clarifying the requirements for uniform bottoms makes it easier for coaches and athletic directors to address the individual needs of their student-athletes when ordering uniforms. Teammates must all wear like-colored uniform bottoms but may wear multiple styles. This clarification allows for an athlete to wear a skirt or pants of the same color as the athlete’s teammates without contacting the state association for a uniform accommodation.

Points of Emphasis: Uniforms: B. As has been the rule in the past, uniform bottoms do not have to match the torso of the uniform; however, with the adoption of Rule 3-4-5, uniform bottoms must be like-colored among teammates. To provide clarity, the following examples are provided:
• Teammates may wear multiple styles of uniform bottoms, which may include shorts, skirts or pants.
• The color of the uniform bottoms are not required to be the same as the uniform top; however, the bottoms must be a consistent color among teammates. The bottom style may differ for every player, but the color must be the same.
Example – A1 is wearing a white jersey and red shorts. A2 is wearing a white jersey and a red skirt. Legal, as long as the bottom is red for all five players.

[Raymond]

New throw-in spots. If there is a BC violation other than stepping on the division line, the throw-in spot is either the 28' ft line or 3ft from the lane line. Still have college officials who get that wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If there is a BC violation other than stepping on the division line, the throw-in spot is either the 28' ft line or 3ft from the lane line.

Is the throw-in team in its frontcourt or backcourt?

Establishing four throw-in spots when a team gains … possession in its frontcourt due to a violation … other than an out-of-bounds.

If the throw-in is to be in the team's frontcourt, it shall be at either the nearest 28-foot mark along each sideline or the nearest spot 3-feet outside the lane line along the end line.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... other than stepping on the division line,

Is stepping on the division line considered an out of bounds violation, thus closest spot?

Why would stepping on the division line be any different than any other backcourt violation (offense illegally touching the ball in their backcourt but not on the division line)?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Why would stepping on the division line be any different than any other backcourt violation (offense illegally touching the ball in their backcourt but not on the division line)?

... Because the "new" division line is now part of the new team in possession's backcourt, not their frontcourt?

Is the throw-in team in its frontcourt or backcourt?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... Because the "new" division line is now part of the new team in possession's backcourt, not their frontcourt?

Is the throw-in team in its frontcourt or backcourt?

The division line is considered by rule the BC. So if you call a violation there, then the new FC you would put the ball at the 28-foot mark. Now the NCAA made clear they wanted these plays where the line was touched, to put at the division line. Before officials would rightfully so at that level put the ball at the 28-foot mark until a clear change was made. That is what it appears Raymond is addressing.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The division line is considered by rule the BC. So if you call a violation there, then the new FC you would put the ball at the 28-foot mark. Now the NCAA made clear they wanted these plays where the line was touched, to put at the division line. Before officials would rightfully so at that level put the ball at the 28-foot mark until a clear change was made. That is what it appears Raymond is addressing.

Peace

While the division line is in the backcourt for the team that stepped on it, it is also in the backcourt of the team getting the ball. So, the new offensive team is still getting that ball in their own backcourt. Thus, it stays at the line.

But, that argument is only clear if they step only on the painted line itself an not over the line. If they step entirely past the line, that does put them into the other teams frontcourt. Then, if they're half stepping on the line and half into the other team's frontcourt, the rule itself would be ambiguous. You could argue either result without an interpretation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

While the division line is in the backcourt for the team that stepped on it, it is also in the backcourt of the team getting the ball. So, the new offensive team is still getting that ball in their own backcourt. Thus, it stays at the line.

But, that argument is only clear if they step only on the painted line itself an not over the line. If they step entirely past the line, that does put them into the other teams frontcourt. Then, if they're half stepping on the line and half into the other team's frontcourt, the rule itself would be ambiguous. You could argue either result without an interpretation.

I agree if you step over that is different than stepping on the line. I am just saying that the NCAA addressed this and had to clarify this rule and the application.

I think they might need to clarify this with either an interpretation or even a case play. But something tells me they might not do that this year.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The division line is considered by rule the BC. So if you call a violation there, then the new FC you would put the ball at the 28-foot mark. Now the NCAA made clear they wanted these plays where the line was touched, to put at the division line. Before officials would rightfully so at that level put the ball at the 28-foot mark until a clear change was made. That is what it appears Raymond is addressing.

Peace

Yeah, I was still working when they issued that interpretation. But even afterward, I've had to correct NCAA-Men's officials about their throw-in spots in games I've observed.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

New throw-in spots. If there is a BC violation other than stepping on the division line, the throw-in spot is either the 28' ft line or 3ft from the lane line. Still have college officials who get that wrong.

NCAAW is different. The throw in would be at the OOB spot nearest the violation.

Art. 2. The location of the throw-in shall be determined as follows:
a. When there is team control and the defense commits a violation of Rule
9-6 or a single personal foul in the offense's frontcourt, play will resume
with a throw-in to the offensive team at a designated spot at either the
28-foot mark or the lower defensive box mark nearest to the location of
the personal foul or violation.
b. For all other violations or personal fouls when play will resume with a
throw-in, the throw-in shall be made from the designated spot nearest to
where the violation or foul occurred.

(9-6 is "kick, first, through the basket from below")

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAAW is different. The throw in would be at the OOB spot nearest the violation.

Art. 2. The location of the throw-in shall be determined as follows:
a. When there is team control and the defense commits a violation of Rule
9-6 or a single personal foul in the offense's frontcourt, play will resume
with a throw-in to the offensive team at a designated spot at either the
28-foot mark or the lower defensive box mark nearest to the location of
the personal foul or violation.
b. For all other violations or personal fouls when play will resume with a
throw-in, the throw-in shall be made from the designated spot nearest to
where the violation or foul occurred.

(9-6 is "kick, first, through the basket from below")

Yep, I know (neutral observer for both Men's and Women's, so I've had to track both rule sets). I like that the NFHS is going with NCAA-Men on this one.

[JamesBCrazy]

Originally Posted by Raymond

New throw-in spots. If there is a BC violation other than stepping on the division line, the throw-in spot is either the 28' ft line or 3ft from the lane line. Still have college officials who get that wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:

If Team A commits a BC violation in their own FC (or precisely at the division line, which is in both teams' BC) Team B will still be throwing it in from their BC, the same as last year's rule.

Only if Team A commits a BC violation in their own BC (and not at the division line) will Team B throw it in from one of the four throw-in spots.

(Knowing this forum, this is going to cause overly pedantic debates over precisely what is meant by "the spot of the violation.")

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JamesBCrazy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but:



If Team A commits a BC violation in their own FC (or precisely at the division line, which is in both teams' BC) Team B will still be throwing it in from their BC, the same as last year's rule.



Only if Team A commits a BC violation in their own BC (and not at the division line) will Team B throw it in from one of the four throw-in spots.



(Knowing this forum, this is going to cause overly pedantic debates over precisely what is meant by "the spot of the violation.")

NCAA men's clarified a few years ago if the back court violation is caused by Team A touching the division line, they wanted the ensuing throw in for Team B at the division line, which made it a back court throw in with implications on the shot clock.

Since the NFHS seems to be copying the NCAAM's throw-in rule, the NFHS should provide a case play or interp for clarity, IMHO.



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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA men's clarified a few years ago if the back court violation is caused by Team A touching the division line, they wanted the ensuing throw in for Team B at the division line, which made it a back court throw in with implications on the shot clock.

Since the NFHS seems to be copying the NCAAM's throw-in rule, the NFHS should provide a case play or interp for clarity, IMHO.

The fact that the shot clock is not in play (meaning a reset to 20 seconds or so) at this point, where you put the ball really is not as important for high school. It is just more about what the NF ultimately wants to do. But they have to clarify this as you stated or people will be debating this on the court. Not the place we need indecision over a throw-in spot.

Peace

[Valley Man]

4-36, 6-4-3, 7-5-2 thru 4, 9-1 PENALTY 3, 9-4 PENALTY, 9-5 PENALTY, 9-6 PENALTY, 9-8 PENALTY, 9-9 PENALTY, 9-12 PENALTIES 3 & 4, 9-13 PENALTY — Establishing four throw-in spots (the nearest 28-foot mark along each sideline or the nearest spot 3-feet outside the lane line on the end line) when a team gains or retains possession in its frontcourt due to a violation, a common foul prior to the bonus or any stoppage other than an out-of-bounds eliminates much of the judgment for an official about where exactly the throw-in spot should be located and allows teams to develop throw-in plays both offensively and defensively from four pre-determined locations.

Offense calling a time out just over the division line will allow offense to move the ball up to the 28' mark in essence .. correct?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

4-36, 6-4-3, 7-5-2 thru 4, 9-1 PENALTY 3, 9-4 PENALTY, 9-5 PENALTY, 9-6 PENALTY, 9-8 PENALTY, 9-9 PENALTY, 9-12 PENALTIES 3 & 4, 9-13 PENALTY — Establishing four throw-in spots (the nearest 28-foot mark along each sideline or the nearest spot 3-feet outside the lane line on the end line) when a team gains or retains possession in its frontcourt due to a violation, a common foul prior to the bonus or any stoppage other than an out-of-bounds eliminates much of the judgment for an official about where exactly the throw-in spot should be located and allows teams to develop throw-in plays both offensively and defensively from four pre-determined locations.



Offense calling a time out just over the division line will allow offense to move the ball up to the 28' mark in essence .. correct?

That is correct.

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