2023-2024 Rules Changes Announced.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Really, in the past you wouldn't allow players on a team to play with two different color shorts? Citation please?

3-4-1: Team jersey color and design must adhere to the following:
a. The torso of the team jersey must be the same single solid color for all team members.
c. The torso color must be white for the home team and a contrasting dark color for the visiting team.

Did the application of the rule change? No. Nothing to site. Stop being obtuse.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did the application of the rule change? No.

Absolutely 100% disagree.

Old rule: No color restrictions for shorts. Players on the same team can legally have multiple color shorts, one blue, another white, etc. No officials having a "Fashion Police" role in regard to the color of snorts.

New rule: Color restrictions for shorts in that players on the same team most all wear the same color shorts. It's illegal for players on the same team to have multiple color shorts, one blue, another white, etc. In regard to shorts, officials now have a "Fashion Police" role: "Coach. All your players must wear the same color shorts. Pick a color, those kids can play tonight".

I'm divided on this rule change.

While I agree that rules that restrict equipment colors benefit officials by allowing them to easily identify players on each team during fast paced action, I also always prefer "Fashion Police" issues to change from complex to simpler.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) fashion issues changed from simpler to more complex (shorts, visitor black undershirts) this coming year.

Two more fashion issues to deal with that we didn't have to deal with last year.

One (shorts) that allows us to easily identify players on each team during fast paced action, and another (visitor black undershirts) that was changed only for the convenience of teams/players/parents.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did the application of the rule change? No.

If by this you mean that you've never encountered multiple color shorts in any of your high school varsity games, then I see your point that this rule change would not apply to you.

However it does apply to my little corner of Connecticut.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... we have several teams in our local area where junior varsity shorts are different colors than varsity shorts (a kind of rite of passage). Coaches will often reward junior varsity players by inviting some of them (with their "wrong" color shorts) to sit on the varsity bench. Pretty sure that our CIAC will have to make some exceptions until everybody goes through a new uniform cycle (or maybe beyond).

[JRutledge]

New Rule says:

Rule 3-4-5 clarifies that multiple styles of uniform bottoms may be worn by teammates, but they must all be like-colored and adhere to uniform rules outlined in Rule 3-6-2 regarding logos and trademarks.

Old Rule says:

Uniform pants/skirts shall have only one visible logo manufacturer's logo/trademark/reference...........Showing multiple logos on the waistband of the pants/skirts makes them illegal.

The only thing illegal before was the kind of logo you had on. I hardly see a change unless "like color" is meant to mean same color. So that means to me what we did before, we did not nitpick what they wore. And it also does not say the same solid color either.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I hardly see a change unless "like color" is meant to mean same color.

I believe that's what it means, "like color" means the same (or similar) color, but, of course I can be misreading it. We'll have to wait for the actual rule language or interpretations to see what the NFHS actually expects.

3-4-5: Requires uniform bottoms on teammates to be like-colored while allowing different styles of uniform bottoms among teammates. Rationale: Clarifies that teammates must all wear like-colored uniform bottoms but may wear multiple styles while aligning language with other NFHS rules codes.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... we have several teams in our local area where junior varsity shorts are different colors than varsity shorts (a kind of rite of passage). Coaches will often reward junior varsity players by inviting some of them (with their "wrong" color shorts) to sit on the varsity bench. Pretty sure that our CIAC will have to make some exceptions until everybody goes through a new uniform cycle (or maybe beyond).

In my case, the colors aren't even close. Junior varsity players wear white shorts. Varsity players on the same team wear dark shorts, for example, some teams blue, some teams red, some teams black. Or vice versa (as well as home versus road). It's when some junior varsity players also try to play in the later varsity game (without changing shorts) where we could have some problems with the new rule, if I'm reading it correctly.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've always been very pleased that the NFHS didn't have any color restrictions on shorts, shoes, and socks. Quoth the raven, "Nevermore".

[BillyMac]

These shorts are not exactly the same color.

Some are white shorts with red stripes, while others are red shorts with white stripes.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did the application of the rule change? No. Nothing to site. Stop being obtuse.

Peace

Actually, I believe it did change.

Before, aside from logo restrictions, there were zero rules on the shorts. One player could have worn red shorts with another wearing black and another wearing yellow...and all would have been legal. It rarely happened but it would on occasion. I've seen it and, as State Rules Interpreter, have had the question brought to my by officials that saw it one of their games and wondered what they should have done (nothing).

Now, they must at least be similar in color.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, I believe it did change.

Before, aside from logo restrictions, there were zero rules on the shorts. One player could have worn red shorts with another wearing black and another wearing yellow...and all would have been legal. It rarely happened but it would on occasion. I've seen it and, as State Rules Interpreter, have had the question brought to my by officials that saw it one of their games and wondered what they should have done (nothing).

Now, they must at least be similar in color.

That is the rub, what is "like-colored"? That does not mean the same for sure. Does that mean that if I have red and white (as in the Globetrotter picture) could I have red mostly on one and some white or could on another pair we have mostly white with smaller red? I say that it really did not change much because we never nitpicked that kind of stuff and I was using the example of a JV kid coming up to play the varsity and the JV kid has the old jerseys so that they have a different style of pants, but they are the same basic colors. And usually, that JV kid was not a key player so it was almost never something you noticed outside of the warmups.

Only once in my career did a kid have a completely different color pant than the jersey that clearly did not go with the school's uniform. It was a poorer school too, so something tells me this player did not have other uniforms that fit him and he played with his own stuff. And if that happened, it would be very hard-pressed to penalize this team with anything because that took place. Never seen that since and usually, this is not much of an issue other than a lower-level player playing with a higher-level team.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is the rub, what is "like-colored"? That does not mean the same for sure. Does that mean that if I have red and white (as in the Globetrotter picture) could I have red mostly on one and some white or could on another pair we have mostly white with smaller red? I say that it really did not change much because we never nitpicked that kind of stuff and I was using the example of a JV kid coming up to play the varsity and the JV kid has the old jerseys so that they have a different style of pants, but they are the same basic colors. And usually, that JV kid was not a key player so it was almost never something you noticed outside of the warmups.

Peace

The point is that, in the past, there wasn't even anything to nitpick. There were zero rules on the short colors. One could have worn white shorts and another could have worn black. You could have had the full rainbow of colors and it would have been 100% legal, by rule.

Now, they've added "like-color" as a new restriction. What is a like color? Good question. Black is not like white. Red it not like blue. Green is not like yellow. But red/white Globetrotter stripes and another that is red or mostly red, to me, would be like. But if one player had all all/mostly red with others wearing the Globetrotter stripes, all/mostly white is no longer an option.

I've have seen some minor variation in the shorts being worn, but they're typically the same color scheme...old vs new, etc.. I guess some had issue with that (not me) and they wanted to make sure no one was preventing kids form playing as long as they were at least similar but wanted to established that it wasn't anything-goes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point is that, in the past, there wasn't even anything to nitpick. There were zero rules on the short colors. One could have worn white shorts and another could have worn black. You could have had the full rainbow of colors and it would have been 100% legal, by rule.

Now, they've added "like-color" as a new restriction. What is a like color? Good question. Black is not like white. Red it not like blue. Green is not like yellow. But red/white Globetrotter stripes and another that is red or mostly red, to me, would be like. But if one player had all all/mostly red with others wearing the Globetrotter stripes, all/mostly white is no longer an option.

I've have seen some minor variation in the shorts being worn, but they're typically the same color scheme...old vs new, etc.. I guess some had issue with that (not me) and they wanted to make sure no one was preventing kids form playing as long as they were at least similar but wanted to established that it wasn't anything-goes.

I did not see it as an issue because we did not ever have to worry about it. Because if the situation took place as I stated, no way I am penalizing a team because they could not fit a kid. Someone will have to admonish me for that. Just like none of us measured a logo. Glad they need to make that clear, but it to me is going to be applied just like it always was and that was my point. Not really something we will see officials going out of their way to prove unless they do not know any better. Because if they wanted to make it like the other rules with the sleeves or the headbands they would have used the same language. Again, a nothing burger for the most part IMO.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not see it as an issue because we did not ever have to worry about it. Because if the situation took place as I stated, no way I am penalizing a team because they could not fit a kid.

No need to worry about it in the past because, for at least the past forty years, there was absolutely no color restriction on shorts. Only those who didn't understand the rule (or lack of a rule, if it's not illegal, it's legal) had "issues". If any state associations, local officials organizations, or individual officials allowed multiple color shorts, it was a redundancy, no exception was necessary for an imaginary rule that didn't exist.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Only once in my career did a kid have a completely different color pant than the jersey that clearly did not go with the school's uniform ... And if that happened, it would be very hard-pressed to penalize this team with anything because that took place.

And in the past, if anyone penalized this player, or this team, they would be 100% wrong by NFHS rule (or lack of a rule, if it's not illegal, it's legal).

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... Because if they wanted to make it like the other rules with the sleeves or the headbands they would have used the same language.

Agree, "like color" is very odd language, not appearing anywhere else in the rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretations, but it has to mean something, something that has to do with colors.

Same? Similar? Something else?

I can foresee some state associations making exceptions to this new rule, especially for subvarsity games. And if they don't, I can see some officials organizations making exceptions to this new rule for the middle schools that they service, as my local board already does regarding some uniform and equipment rules in middle school games, for example, illegal numbers.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No need to worry about it in the past because, for at least the past forty years, there was absolutely no color restriction on shorts. Only those who didn't understand the rule (or lack of a rule, if it's not illegal, it's legal) had "issues". If any state associations, local officials organizations, or individual officials allowed multiple color shorts, it was a redundancy, no exception was necessary for an imaginary rule that didn't exist.


And in the past, if anyone penalized this player, or this team, they would be 100% wrong by NFHS rule (or lack of a rule, if it's not illegal, it's legal).


Agree, "like color" is very odd language, not appearing anywhere else in the rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretations, but it has to mean something, something that has to do with colors.

Same? Similar? Something else?

I can foresee some state associations making exceptions to this new rule, especially for subvarsity games. And if they don't, I can see some officials organizations making exceptions to this new rule for the middle schools that they service, as my local board already does regarding some uniform and equipment rules in middle school games, for example, illegal numbers.

You can stay up night worrying about this. I will not because it rarely is an issue anyway before this wording and doubt it would be an issue after. That was ultimately my point. There is going to be a real world application to all of this that will trump the strict application that some will try to point out.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Does that mean that if I have red and white (as in the Globetrotter picture) ...

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But red/white Globetrotter stripes and another that is red or mostly red, to me, would be like. But if one player had all all/mostly red with others wearing the Globetrotter stripes, all/mostly white is no longer an option.

I almost didn't post the Globetrotter photo, now I'm glad that I did because it appears to have generated some discussion.

There are thousands of high school basketball teams in the country.

At least one of them must be wearing striped shorts.

We have a very successful Catholic high school team in our local area that wears warmups with red and white "candy cane" striped warmup pants. Every time they come out for layup lines, I think to myself, "What a bunch of Christmas clowns". It's their tradition, they're very successful, so they keep wearing them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I almost didn't post the Globetrotter photo, now I'm glad that I did because it appears to have generated some discussion.

There are thousands of high school basketball teams in the country. At least one of them must be wearing striped shorts.

We have a very successful Catholic high school team in our local area that wears warmups with red and white "candy cane" striped warmup pants. Every time they come out for layup lines, I think to myself, "What a bunch of Christmas clowns". It's their tradition, they're very successful, so they keep wearing them.

The picture to me is not that relevant. I only referenced it because you posted it, but it as not a discussion point. Because I do not see those shorts as the issue. I see someone wearing red or someone wearing white if those shorts were on the same team as complying. And I bet each state will have its own interpretation anyway. If the NF does not make it clear what is illegal, then that is what the states do.

Again, I doubt this will even be an issue in my world because at the varsity level I do not see anyone stopping a JV kid from playing because the pants were a different color as the other pants but share the same basic color of their school or teammates.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... not a discussion point.

It was for Camron Rust in his thought provoking post.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

But red/white Globetrotter stripes and another that is red or mostly red, to me, would be like. But if one player had all all/mostly red with others wearing the Globetrotter stripes, all/mostly white is no longer an option.