Chin-up

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

At what point do we determine a player not listed as a starter is illegally on the court? At what point is it too late for that?

Brings to mind one of the most unsporting events of my life.

I was a fourteen year old playing Babe Ruth baseball. I was on a really terrible team (with me as a terrible player), with no wins at that point in the season (finished season 0-15). We were terrible because we had no true pitchers. Our #1 pitcher was our starting shortstop, not overpowering, but didn't walk a lot of batters. Our #2 pitcher was our starting third baseman, the son of the team sponsor, great moving fastball (as I discovered as the first baseman catching his throws from third base), but absolutely no control, tons of walks, and hit batsmen. No designated #3 pitcher, we just pitched anyone with a pulse.

That night we were playing another terrible team, also with no wins at that point in the season. We were the home team and pitched first. The opposing coach watched as our #1 pitcher warmed up. Then the game started. Our #1 pitcher threw his first pitch.

Opposing coach calls timeout and bounces out of his dugout. Tells the umpire that our #1 pitcher isn't eligible to pitch that night (my coach was unaware his eligibility status that night) due to some limitation rule on pitchers (something about limited appearances in a time period and required days of rest between pitching). The entire situation was complicated by a few suspended partial game rainouts previous to our game.

Game's over. Forfeit. We all pick up our gloves and go home.

The opposing coach watched as our #1 pitcher warmed up, he had our lineup card in his hand, he knew that our #1 pitcher wasn't eligible to pitch that night, and yet he waited for that first pitch instead of saying something pregame to our coach or the umpire.

But he got his win. That's all that counted to him. Not that thirty kids didn't get to play baseball that night.

Still pisses me off to this day, fifty-five years later.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

At what point do we determine a player not listed as a starter is illegally on the court? At what point is it too late for that?

3.2.2 SITUATION E: Team A designates No. 32 as a starter by the 10-minute time frame prior to the game. In (a), as the teams take the floor for the opening jump ball, the scorer recognizes that No. 34 is on court instead of No. 32 for Team A and notifies the officials. In (b), following about two minutes of play in the first quarter, a time-out is called. The scorer notifies the officials that although Team A No. 32 was a designated starter, No. 34 started instead and is still in the game. RULING: In (a), if Team A’s coach replaces No. 34 for the correct designated starter, No. 32, no penalty is assessed. If Team A’s coach elects to start the game with No. 34 instead of No. 32, a technical foul is assessed to Team A for changing a designated starter. In (b), no penalty is assessed. The infraction had to be discovered and penalized before the ball became live to start the game. Once the ball became live, it was too late to penalize for this specific infraction. (3-2-2a; 10-1-2a Penalty)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

3.2.2 SITUATION E: Team A designates No. 32 as a starter by the 10-minute time frame prior to the game. In (a), as the teams take the floor for the opening jump ball, the scorer recognizes that No. 34 is on court instead of No. 32 for Team A and notifies the officials. In (b), following about two minutes of play in the first quarter, a time-out is called. The scorer notifies the officials that although Team A No. 32 was a designated starter, No. 34 started instead and is still in the game. RULING: In (a), if Team A’s coach replaces No. 34 for the correct designated starter, No. 32, no penalty is assessed. If Team A’s coach elects to start the game with No. 34 instead of No. 32, a technical foul is assessed to Team A for changing a designated starter. In (b), no penalty is assessed. The infraction had to be discovered and penalized before the ball became live to start the game. Once the ball became live, it was too late to penalize for this specific infraction. (3-2-2a; 10-1-2a Penalty)

This lends to my thought that there are no "players" until the ball is live to start the game.

Though, good luck explaining to both coaches why they have to sit all game when two opponents on the court shove each other prior to the opening jump ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

This lends to my thought that there are no "players" until the ball is live to start the game.

I find it interesting that a team could get a "do-over" (substitute in the listed starter) to avoid a penalty if discovered as the "players" gather for the jump ball, or may later get a totally free pass after the ball is tossed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I find it interesting that a team could get a "do-over" (substitute in the listed starter) to avoid a penalty if discovered as the "players" gather for the jump ball, or may later get a totally free pass after the ball is tossed.

I can't think of a reason a coach would opt for the penalty instead of just making a sub on the first dead ball unless the player were Cal Ripken Jr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... unless the player were Cal Ripken Jr.

Cal Ripken, Jr. plays basketball?

My son was third basemen (Ripken played third base late in his career) in Little League and still has a poster of Cal Ripken, Jr. on his childhood bedroom wall.