More Than Five ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This below helps but it's not from an "official" NFHS publication: From the IAABO Sportorials November/December 2017 issue, article entitled Rules Interpretations and Clarifications From In-Person Meeting With Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor: More than five players on the court not observed by officials: If Team A has more than five players on the court during a live ball and the officials do not realize it, should the officials charge Team A with a technical foul if the scorer notifies officials of the infraction during the next dead ball period? Answer: No. An on-court official must observe the excess number of players on the court during a live ball and a team having more than five players on the court during a live ball shall be penalized only if the infraction is discovered while being violated.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA Bulletin: In a recent game, six players participated in the game for one team. Several officials and administrators asked for clarification and we are releasing the following play situation: SITUATION: Team A has six players on the playing court when the ball is made live with five seconds remaining in the game. A1’s successful field goal attempt is in the air when the time expires ending the game. Immediately after the expiration of time and before the officials have left the playing court, one of the officials observes that Team A had six players on the court when the basket was scored. What is the correct ruling? RULING: The field goal shall count because A6 became a player when the ball became alive (Rule 3-4.1.c). However, the game has not ended since the officials have not left the court, which ends their jurisdiction and approves the score. The officials should award Team B two free throws and the game will continue with an overtime period if both free throws are successful (Rule 2-4.4, 5-7.7. and 10-2.6). Further Comment: Rule 10-2.6 requires that the sixth player participate when the ball is alive. There is no time limit within which the officials have to recognize and penalize this technical foul.However, the officials must see the violation occur or have personal knowledge that it did occur in order to penalize the infraction. A monitor may not be used to obtain such knowledge (Rule 10-2.6, 2-13.2 and 5-7.7).

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If you don't realize there were 6 players until after the ball becomes dead to end the 2nd quarter, it is too late to penalize. Your whistle doesn't have to beat the horn, but you have to have the aha moment before the horn ... You either recognize it in time or not.

Camron Rust makes a good argument based on the NFHS rule as (poorly) written as well as a NFHS interpretation from Theresia Wynns (via IAABO): An on-court official must observe the excess number of players on the court during a live ball ...

However the NCAA Bulletin appears to leave a little "wiggle room": The officials must see the violation occur or have personal knowledge that it did occur in order to penalize the infraction.

I wish that the NFHS would define "participating".

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I wish that the NFHS would define "participating".

When they become a player and the ball becomes live they have participated.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

When they become a player and the ball becomes live they have participated.

Sounds good. When do they stop "participating"?

[Rich1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sounds good. When do they stop "participating"?

When is a player no longer a player? A player stops participating when they become bench personnel, an intermission begins, or the game ends.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich1

When is a player no longer a player? A player stops participating when they become bench personnel, an intermission begins, or the game ends.

Is a player "participating" during the dead ball period between a live ball violation (travel) and the subsequent disposal to an inbounder?

Even if one substitute was beckoned in, and one player left the court during that dead ball, are the other "players" (possibly an "extra") not involved with the substitution still "participating" during that dead ball?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Team A has six team members participating, which goes unobserved by the officials. Official calls a travel violation on Team A. There are no substitutions after the whistle. Before administering the throw in, officials observe that Team A has six team members (on the court) ...

Is a player "participating" during a timeout?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A) Head coach of Team B requests, and is granted, a timeout, at which point he immediately complains to the officials that Team A has six team members participating. The sole purpose of his timeout is to call attention to the officials that Team A has six team members participating. Officials, who have been unaware that six team members have been participating up until that point, count six Team A members on the court before they head into their timeout huddle.

J) Made basket by Team A, immediate time-out by Team A is granted by the officials, officials notice six team members departing the floor for Team A.