Held ball, followed by timeout

[Altor]

I was watching a 7th grade game from the stands a couple weeks ago. Held ball under H's basket. Arrow points other way. V-Coach calls full timeout. I thought to myself at the time..."They are going to forget to switch the arrow."

Teams come out of timeout. I don't recall if T told the player "spot" or gave him the finger wagging to signal he could run the endline or did nothing to indicate either. But, V5 took the ball from the official, V13 runs from the foul line to the other end of the end line, OOB, and receives the pass. And proceeds to throw a baseball pass down the floor for an easy layup. As I predicted, the arrow never got changed and V got the next AP too.

I often see officials signaling to each other at the beginning and end of a timeout if a throw-in should be a spot or "running," so I'm not terribly interested about that aspect. It was a 7th grade game, and those officials are either learning what they should be doing or are past the point where they will ever learn.

I am curious if you have any suggestions on how to catch the AP arrow in that situation. I know some carry an extra whistle. Do you swap it at the time you call the held ball, even before the throw-in? That would have caught this one. But, then, what do you do when you have a TF or something weird coming out of that timeout? You've already changed your "personal arrow" when you shouldn't have. Are you relying on yourself to put the whistle back in the other pocket if that throw-in never completes?

[Altor]

Another question...would you suggest reminding the table coming out of the timeout that it's an AP throw-in and the arrow needs switched?

[Raymond]

During/after a time-out, I remind my partners and the table that we will be having an AP throw-in.

If we have something that precludes the AP throw-in, I inform the table we will not be switching the arrow after the throw-in.

Should be basic communications practices that are passed down through training.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Raymond

During/after a time-out, I remind my partners and the table that we will be having an AP throw-in.

If we have something that precludes the AP throw-in, I inform the table we will not be switching the arrow after the throw-in.

Should be basic communications practices that are passed down through training.

If I have a table that appears to be on the ball, I'll give a reminder held ball signal before pointing in the direction of the throw-in coming out of the time out.


If it's a table that's more inexperienced - especially at a lower level game (namely subvarsity, middle school, or CYO) - I've been known to remind them that the throw in following the time out is for a held ball and we need to switch the arrow as appropriate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

If I have a table that appears to be on the ball, I'll give a reminder held ball signal before pointing in the direction of the throw-in coming out of the time out.

Good technique. Nice and simple.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

If I have a table that appears to be on the ball, I'll give a reminder held ball signal before pointing in the direction of the throw-in coming out of the time out.


If it's a table that's more inexperienced - especially at a lower level game (namely subvarsity, middle school, or CYO) - I've been known to remind them that the throw in following the time out is for a held ball and we need to switch the arrow as appropriate.

I remind the table that we still have the arrow on such situations regardless of the experience of the table. I may phrase it differently, but I always do it. We're in a timeout and it easy to do to prevent any issue so why not do it?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Altor

Held ball under H's basket. Arrow points other way. V-Coach calls full timeout. I thought to myself at the time ... "They are going to forget to switch the arrow."

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

If I have a table that appears to be on the ball, I'll give a reminder held ball signal before pointing in the direction of the throw-in coming out of the time out. If it's a table that's more inexperienced - especially at a lower level game (namely subvarsity, middle school, or CYO) - I've been known to remind them that the throw in following the time out is for a held ball and we need to switch the arrow as appropriate.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I reminder the table that we still have the arrow on such situations regardless of the experience of the table. I may phrase it differently, but I always do it. We're in a timeout and it easy to do to prevent any issue so why not do it?

Thanks to Stat-Man and Camron Rust for getting us back to one of the important points of the original post, the possibility of something distracting the officials and/or the table over thirty or sixty seconds that the call was a held ball, the need to "officially" change the table arrow after the throwin after the timeout, and something to be on the alert for.

Had an article published a few years ago, When The Ball Is Dead, We Must Be Alive. Unfortunately, I failed to cover this held ball/timeout situation.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1025072

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Altor

...

I am curious if you have any suggestions on how to catch the AP arrow in that situation. I know some carry an extra whistle. Do you swap it at the time you call the held ball, even before the throw-in? That would have caught this one. But, then, what do you do when you have a TF or something weird coming out of that timeout? You've already changed your "personal arrow" when you shouldn't have. Are you relying on yourself to put the whistle back in the other pocket if that throw-in never completes?

If someone is going to use a whistle or whatever (I don't) in their pocket, I would hope they switch it when it is supposed to be legally switched. During otherwise is just going to add to the confusion.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If someone is going to use a whistle or whatever (I don't) in their pocket, I would hope they switch it when it is supposed to be legally switched. During otherwise is just going to add to the confusion.

Every time I've noticed an official using this technique, they are almost always switching it shortly after they confirm the arrow at the table and point in that direction...before the AP throw-in completes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Altor

Every time I've noticed an official using this technique, they are almost always switching it shortly after they confirm the arrow at the table and point in that direction ... before the AP throw-in completes.

That's me. Wrong by rule, but it (usually) works for me.

100% of the post-arthritis middle school games that I work don't have an arrow at the table.

I know that we can use a water bottle, or a pencil, or a folded paper, at the table, but then we would have to train the table crew, and about half of the table crews are middle school students.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I swap mine before (not the legally correct time, I've already got enough to do immediately after the throwin) the held ball alternating possession throwin (and at the end of the first half).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I know that we can use a water bottle, or a pencil, or a folded paper, at the table, but then we would have to train the table crew, and about half of the table crews are middle school students.

So notice whether they've changed the arrow / moved the water bottle after each AP throw in. If they haven't remind them the next time you run by the table. The arrow will be right *and* you'll better remember which way it's supposed to point.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So notice whether they've changed the arrow ... after each AP throw in. If they haven't remind them the next time you run by the table.

Have to often do this with trained paid adults at the table for some varsity games.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So notice whether they've changed the arrow / moved the water bottle after each AP throw in. If they haven't remind them the next time you run by the table. The arrow will be right *and* you'll better remember which way it's supposed to point.

Definitely better than having a bulge in your pocket and then all the single moms are wondering "is that your whistle or are you just happy to see me?"

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[ilyazhito]

I don't use that technique. Instead, I remember who won the jump ball, and track possessions starting with the jump ball loser.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I remember who won the jump ball, and track possessions starting with the jump ball loser.

It's great that you have such a great memory. I don't. You must not work a lot of girls middle school games.