Fun With An Off The Ball Foul …

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Without Blue #2's arm stuck on his chest, maybe White #24 doesn't latch on to it?

I do not see contact until the white player grabs the arm and tries to swim it. Then acts like he was contacted in a way to get you to think he was fouled. Just because you stick your arm out does not mean you fouled someone, even if you touch them. That is why we say see the entire play.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see contact until the white player grabs the arm and tries to swim it.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... Blue #2's intentionally and illegally extended arm into White #24"s chest kept White #24 three feet farther away from the basket and a possible rebound. This gave a much shorter Blue #2, with an inside position, a possible tremendous rebounding advantage over a much taller White #24.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Look at the video again, "First Blood" was Blue #2 intentionally and illegally extending an arm into White #24"s chest, which was followed almost immediately (split second) by White #24 intentionally and illegally latching onto Blue #2's extended arm.

Blink and you will miss it. It was that close ("followed almost immediately (split second)"). Slow the video down and one can clearly but barely see the touch first, and then the latch on.

JRutledge already matched the "number one answer", and should be pleased that his interpretation is agreed upon by many.

The “Gang of Four” IAABO Co-Coordinators of Interpreters seem to imply that both "contacts" occurred at the same time (contradicting both JRutledge and me).

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Blue #2, extends his right arm into the torso on White #24. As this occurs, white #24 grabs the arm of Blue #2.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Blink and you will miss it. It was that close ("followed almost immediately (split second)"). Slow the video down and one can clearly but barely see the touch first, and then the latch on.

JRutledge already matched the "number one answer", that would satisfy me.

I do not think I missed anything. I saw what I saw and used my judgment to draw a conclusion. IT does not mean that there could not have been a foul at some point with that action, but we are not talking about an action in general, but the specific kind of play. IAABO is asking for an answer in the poll, they are not asking for a breaking down of the video and why you call it one way or the other.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

IAABO is asking for an answer in the poll, they are not asking for a breaking down of the video and why you call it one way or the other.

Two parts to these play commentaries. Yes, there is a poll, but then there is a video breakdown with "correct" answer based on the combined expertise of four highly respected veteran interpreters (trainers) who have been selected to lead and train this organization of 15,000 basketball officials.

And, yes, sometimes they get it wrong. They themselves have occasionally admitted such.

And yes, often the poll "winners" are wrong.

Note: Not only are IAABO members asked for an multiple choice answer, but in order to answer such, they must give a reason, it's mandatory, not optional.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Two parts to these play commentaries. Yes, there is a poll, but then there is a video breakdown with "correct" answer based on the combined expertise of four highly respected veteran interpreters (trainers) who have been selected to lead ad train this organization of 15,000 basketball officials.

And, yes, sometimes they get it wrong.They themselves have occasionally admitted such.

And yes, often the poll "winners" are wrong.

Note: Not only are IAABO members asked for an multiple choice answer, but in order to answer such, they must give a reason, it's mandatory, not optional.

I break down film all the time and get opinions from very experienced officials as well and they sometimes disagree. So why is this new in IAABO? Been to camps where you show a play or explain a play and there are different ways to handle it by the clinicians. This is your organization and you have a right to value their opinion. I met Donnie Eppley this past July and he is a great guy and I would value his opinion if talking to him about these plays. But I work for some guys that are D1 and have a lot of experience and when we have shown plays on other forums, often we hear differing opinions from those individuals. So it is not about who wins a poll, but what took place and the way it was explained to call the play. I did not say I was right or care what others think, I saw this play because I have seen plays like this 100 times and was told how to call it by people I work for or work with. If the contact was by the black player, then call that foul and move on. I am not a fan of double fouls in general. Get the first foul.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a fan of double fouls in general. Get the first foul.

Agree 100%. If I do call a rare double foul in a real game (seldom more than one, or two, a season, if that) it's usually in the first period to remind a few knuckleheads (usually bigs fighting for post up dominance, or while rebounding) that I'm watching.

One exception: It's a call that I like to make in preseason scrimmages, usually boys scrimmages. Two opponents trying to fight their way onto the varsity roster, or a earn a starting spot, both trying to impress their coaches during the little scrimmage time they get by puffing out their chests and trying to be the alpha male. Whistle. Double foul. "Cut that out".