Fun With A Hip Check …

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

JRutledge: Thanks for confirming that for me.







Because I'm strictly a high school official, but am still curious about some NCAA "stuff", JRutledge and Raymond have now totally confused me.

NFHS: One signal (hand behind head) for both player control and team control fouls (that I'm certain of).

NCAA Men: One signal (hand behind head) for both player control and team control fouls (according to Raymond, "went to behind the head").

NCAA: One signal (punch) for both player control and team control fouls (according to JRutledge, "both (NFHS and NCAA) have decided on different signals").

Maybe I'm confused because of a possible difference between NCAA Men and NCAA Women?

Help. I'm curious and I can't get up.

I work NCAA-Men's and always defer to Bob and others when it comes to NCAA-Women's. I always make sure to reference Men's when I talk about the NCAA.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record both the NCAA and the NF have stopped using different signals for TC and PC fouls. The funny thing is both have decided on different signals.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS: One signal (hand behind head) for both player control and team control fouls (that I'm certain of).

NCAA Men: One signal (hand behind head) for both player control and team control fouls (according to Raymond, "went to behind the head").

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NCAA: One signal (punch) for both player control and team control fouls (according to JRutledge, "both (NFHS and NCAA) have decided on different signals").

Originally Posted by Raymond

I work NCAA-Men's and always defer to Bob and others when it comes to NCAA-Women's. I always make sure to reference Men's when I talk about the NCAA.

Maybe JRutledge was referring to NCAA Women ("both (NFHS and NCAA) have decided on different signals")?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe JRutledge was referring to NCAA Women ("both (NFHS and NCAA) have decided on different signals")?

I do not work women's basketball and do not care about women's basketball. The NCAA Men's Basketball is the only basketball that makes money and has well-known changes. Women's basketball is so busy trying to be the NBA, they often only do what the NBA does.

BTW, this was in the CCA Manual for 2020-2021.



But thanks for playing.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You tend to worry about things that no one else worries about. I have no idea what you are confused by ...

One should not confuse worrying with curiosity.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record both the NCAA and the NF have stopped using different signals for TC and PC fouls. The funny thing is both have decided on different signals.

What confuses me is that while all appear to agree that the NFHS and the NCAA have both decided on one signal for both team control fouls and player control fouls, JRutledge has stated that the NCAA signal is different than the NFHS signal (which must mean punch for NCAA and hand behind head for NFHS), but Raymond has stated that NCAA-M signal and the NFHS signal are the same (hand behind head).

If JRutledge is referring to the NCAA-W signal as being different than the NFHS signal (with the NCAA-W signal a punch), than I'm no longer confused, or I am no longer confused if JRutledge is mistaken about the NCAA signal being different than the NFHS signal. Or, Raymond might be mistaken (though he seemed confident in both of his posts).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not work women's basketball and do not care about women's basketball.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The funny thing is both have decided on different signals.

Then please explain to me how the single team control/player control NCAA signal is different than the NFHS single team control/player control signal, or was Raymond or JRutledge mistaken?



Sure looks the SAME (as in not DIFFERENT) as the NFHS signal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Then please explain to me how the single team control/player control NCAA signal is different than the NFHS single team control/player control signal, or was Raymond or JRutledge mistaken?



Sure looks the SAME (as in not DIFFERENT) as the NFHS signal.

You are posting the signal from NCAA-Men's CCA Manual, so why are you asking if I'm mistaken?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You are posting the signal from NCAA-Men's CCA Manual, so why are you asking if I'm mistaken?

Sorry. No offense intended, just giving somebody else the benefit of a doubt as I struggle to decipher, "the funny thing is both have decided on different signals".

Sorry to drag you into this, but thanks for your enlightening (and confirming) posts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... decipher, "the funny thing is both have decided on different signals".

Got a bee in my bonnet because I used this quote above, from somebody I consider an NCAA rule expert, this morning during a live You Tube presentation (with at least three Forum members in attendance) on new 2021-22 NFHS rules and mechanics to (erroneously) point out that while the NFHS decided to go with the hand behind the head, the NCAA went a "different" way with the punch. Now it's too late to go back and say that I was mistaken (which I am more than willing to do).

But it's still not too late for somebody else to say that they were mistaken.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Then please explain to me how the single team control/player control NCAA signal is different than the NFHS single team control/player control signal, or was Raymond or JRutledge mistaken?



Sure looks the SAME (as in not DIFFERENT) as the NFHS signal.

My reference or comment to different signals was the idea that they would stop using the TC and PC signals for those different types of fouls. I was not trying referencing to what the NF did in comparison to or why. The NCAA did decide to make a change first and did so because of their issues with confusion in their high-profile situations. Also, the NCAA shows a full procedure, the NF at this time only shows one signal (according to their Pre-Season Guide made by NASO). It is a little different and really not the point I was trying to make here. Not worried about why different organizations want to do something they see fit. Different participants and different officials.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Got a bee in my bonnet because I used this quote above, from somebody I consider an NCAA rule expert, this morning during a live You Tube presentation (with at least three Forum members in attendance) on new 2021-22 NFHS rules and mechanics to (erroneously) point out that while the NFHS decided to go with the hand behind the head, the NCAA went a "different" way with the punch. Now it's too late to go back and say that I was mistaken. But it's still not too late for somebody else to say that they were mistaken.

You shouldn't be broadcasting about a rules set without verifying for yourself the the information you are giving out.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You shouldn't be broadcasting about a rules set without verifying for yourself the the information you are giving out.

Lesson learned. Even when curious, and adventuresome, I need to stay in my high school lane.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My reference or comment to different signals was the idea that they would stop using the TC and PC signals for those different types of fouls.

Two sentences were posted, not one sentence.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record both the NCAA and the NF have stopped using different signals for TC and PC fouls. The funny thing is both have decided on different signals.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... the NCAA shows a full procedure, the NF at this time only shows one signal (according to their Pre-Season Guide made by NASO). It is a little different ...

Because one is a signal and the other is a signal sequence. Stick to the actual signal and both are essentially the same signal (hand behind head). I doubt that the NFHS doesn't want us to stop the clock and point the direction. Probably also wants us to point to the throwin spot and signal the type of contact as part of our preliminary signal and/or reporting signal (team control illegal screen block, player control push/charge, etc.).

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The funny thing is both have decided on different signals.

I would still like this quote deciphered, or described simply as a poorly worded written communication mistake.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... this morning during a live You Tube presentation (with at least three Forum members in attendance) on new 2021-22 NFHS rules and mechanics to (erroneously) point out that while the NFHS decided to go with the hand behind the head, the NCAA went a "different" way with the punch. Now it's too late to go back and say that I was mistaken (which I am more than willing to do) ...

Just checked the edited "final" version on You Tube. My original comment did state, "not sure", so while still embarrassing, not too embarrassing.

Also fell on my sword in the new comments section.

But I still need to stay in my lane.

When I make a mistake (in basketball and in life), I acknowledge the mistake, apologize, and correct it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because one is a signal and the other is a signal sequence. Stick to the actual signal and both are essentially the same signal (hand behind head). I doubt that the NFHS doesn't want us to stop the clock and point the direction. Probably also wants us to point to the throwin spot and signal the type of contact as part of our preliminary signal and/or reporting signal (team control illegal screen block, player control push/charge, etc.).

Suggest that one saves and enlarges to read.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sure looks the SAME (as in not DIFFERENT) as the (NCAA) signal.