Fun With Up And Down …

[bob jenkins]

Travel.

You state:

It is always legal to recover a fumble.

From where do you get that?



SITUATION 1: Al is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, Al fumbles the ball (while stifi in the air) and drops it. Al then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

[JRutledge]

I've got a play on. He clearly fumbled the ball and can recover that fumble. Or even if you say it is a shot attempt, he can get his own shot. I think this looked funny and the official called what people would accept.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think this looked funny and the official called what people would accept.

Certainly accepted by the shooter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Certainly accepted by the shooter.

Yeah, he does not know the rule either.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, he does not know the rule either.

That's “Buddy” Boeheim, son of Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's “Buddy” Boeheim, son of Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim.

You mean the son of a coach does not know a rule? Of course they don't.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

From where do you get that (It is always legal to recover a fumble)?

Something often claimed by four different highly regarded local interpreters over the past forty years. Possibly a "Rule of Thumb" that may have some exceptions (although exceptions have never been mentioned).

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

SITUATION 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, Al fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

Nice citation (2000-2001 BASKETBALL INTERPRETATIONS SUPPLEMENT) bob jenkins. Thanks.

Does "drops it" imply a deliberate act or an accidental act and does it make a difference? Does the different order of events in the citation versus the video make any difference (video player secured possession before returning to the floor)? Does the citation player regain possession after the fumble and before the drop? Did the video player release the ball on a try?

I don't have definite answers for my questions, certainly not good enough answers to go to bat for and to die on a hill for (sorry about the mixed metaphors).

This is a great play to discuss.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Travel.

You state: From where do you get that?



SITUATION 1: Al is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, Al fumbles the ball (while stifi in the air) and drops it. Al then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

Since the video clip is from an NCAA contest, I will point out that the NCAA issued an AR fairly recently which states that an airborne player who fumbles the ball may recover it without violating. As Bob posted above the old NFHS interpretation provides the opposite ruling at the HS level.

[Robert Goodman]

Can I correctly infer from Billy Mac and bob jenkins's quotes that one is not allowed to start a dribble with no foot on the floor? That if a player who's not touching the floor releases the ball, that action cannot result in a dribble?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Can I correctly infer from Billy Mac and bob jenkins's quotes that one is not allowed to start a dribble with no foot on the floor? That if a player who's not touching the floor releases the ball, that action cannot result in a dribble?

Assuming the player had the ball with a pivot foot on the floor and then raised the pivot foot, all the player can do is shoot, pass or request a TO.

Starting a dribble is a violation.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Assuming the player had the ball with a pivot foot on the floor and then raised the pivot foot, all the player can do is shoot, pass or request a TO.

Starting a dribble is a violation.

But how does anyone know it's a dribble until the ball is touched again? Is the violation then retroactive to when the player released the ball, starting the dribble? Or when the player touches the ball again, making it a dribble?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

But how does anyone know it's a dribble until the ball is touched again?

99.44% of the time it's obvious.

Otherwise, wait until it's touched. The violation is for *releasing* the ball on a dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

99.44% of the time it's obvious. Otherwise, wait until it's touched. The violation is for *releasing* the ball on a dribble.

I wait until it's touched otherwise it could be the start of a legal bounce pass.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Can I correctly infer from Billy Mac and bob jenkins's quotes that one is not allowed to start a dribble with no foot on the floor? That if a player who's not touching the floor releases the ball, that action cannot result in a dribble?

An airborne player could catch a pass or secure a rebound and quickly start a dribble prior to landing.