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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 12:49pm
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Fun With Getting Straight-Lined …

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...6zRZIhDQ%3D%3D

Is this a Foul or legally blocked shot? Did the Lead take a good approach to get an angle on this play?

Two choices: The ruling of a foul is correct. This is a good block and there is no foul on the play.

My comment: This is a good block and there is no foul on the play. Tough call. Looks like the Lead may have been straight-lined. What happened to the rule about keeping the endlines clear under the baskets, both baskets in this video?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed May 05, 2021 at 08:48am.
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 01:18pm
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Wouldn't You Like To Be A Pepper Too ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
What happened to the rule about keeping the endlines clear under the baskets, both baskets in this video?
Eventually the little kid under the left basket is going to get clobbered and spill his Dr. Pepper on himself and everywhere around him.
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 02:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
IAABO Make The Call Video

Is this a Foul or legally blocked shot? Did the Lead take a good approach to get an angle on this play?

Two choices: The ruling of a foul is correct. This is a good block and there is no foul on the play.

My comment: This is a good block and there is no foul on the play. Tough call. Looks like the Lead may have been straight-lined. What happened to the rule about keeping the endlines clear under the baskets, both baskets in this video?
I say the video is inconclusive. Official was in a good spot to see if he got the arm vs. the ball.

As for the endlines, I see nothing there that I would address. While many gyms have a wall not all that far from the endline, there are gyms with bleacher's along the endlines or larges amounts of space. If there is a wall, fine, keep the area clear. However, if there is 100' and/or seating, that really isn't what the rule was meant to address.
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 04:09pm
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Inconclusive ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I say the video is inconclusive.
Not one of IAABO's two choices, but I agree.
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 04:25pm
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From Here To Sunday ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
As for the endlines, I see nothing there that I would address.
Maybe the photographer on the right is alright, but there's no way I'm letting the little kid remain sitting on the floor drinking a Dr. Pepper under the basket twelve feet behind the endline.

We have a a few high school field houses here in my little corner of Connecticut with an indoor track around the court. Ball goes out of bounds and bounces and rolls a hundred feet. Often get help from cheerleaders. When there are no cheerleaders, I look at a player, he looks at me, and I say "I'm sixty-seven years old, you expect me to go and get the ball?". I always thank the player and give him second to catch his breath when he returns with the ball.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon May 03, 2021 at 11:34am.
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 04:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I say the video is inconclusive. Official was in a good spot to see if he got the arm vs. the ball.
Agreed -- but he should have come to a stop at about the F Tline extended -- he could then see though the players AND be stopped to see the action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Often get help from cheerleaders. When there are no cheerleaders, I look at a player, he looks at me, and I say "I'm sixty-seven years old, you expect me to go and get the ball?". I always thank the player and give him second to catch his breath when he returns with the ball.
Have game management put someone with a replacement game ball on a folding chair 15 feet or so from the endline (or put a ball behind the basket stand, if that's the type of basket being used, or ...). Put that ball into play and have the person chase down the original ball
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Old Sun May 02, 2021, 04:49pm
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I have no idea, the official is standing right there.

I will say this, I tend to let that stuff go unless there is a clear foul. There is not a clear foul. And it is on the other side of the ring. Just came from a camp that wanted us to stay off of these kinds of plays for the most part.

I also come back to what the Head Clinician stated to us. Assume they are going to block the shot. He said that every year I worked the State Finals.

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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 11:38am
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Anticipation (Carly Simon, 1971) ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Assume they are going to block the shot.
An interesting variation of, "Anticipate the play, not the call".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon May 03, 2021 at 11:41am.
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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 11:42am
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Quote:
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Kind of an interesting variation of, "Anticipate the play, not the call".
Kind of. But many officials will call any level of contact on a play that no one is going to really complain if you allow the play to continue. We have officials that think any little contact warrants a foul on these plays and his point was to understand this will happen and do not call cheap fouls.

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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 12:06pm
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Incidental Contact ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... officials that think any little contact warrants a foul on these plays ...
Possibly home sick the day incidental contact was discussed in their rookie training classes.

In third grade, I was home recovering from chicken pox the day Miss Germanese taught cursive upper case Q's in a penmanship lesson.

I'll go to my death bed without ever being properly taught how to write an upper case cursive Q.

Are kids today still taught cursive writing, or is it all keyboarding?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon May 03, 2021 at 12:49pm.
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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 12:10pm
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Be Prepared ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Assume they are going to block the shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
An interesting variation of, "Anticipate the play, not the call".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Kind of ... officials that think any little contact warrants a foul on these plays
How about a combined philosophy, "Anticipate the play, not the call. Anticipate the best outcome, a no call; but be prepared for the worst outman, a foul".

Patient whistle:

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon May 03, 2021 at 02:17pm.
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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 12:33pm
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I am not trying to tell others what to think about to help them be consistent. At the level of ball that I see at the high school and college levels, it is not acceptable to call fouls on blocked shots with minimal contact. Just does not go over well with anyone. Often high school officials try to be so pure when the game not only does not need a whistle on some plays, but plays that everyone would accept nothing being called. This play based on the angle fits that standard for me. I see nothing that stands out that this is a foul. And if you called nothing it probably does not even make this forum.

After all rule 4-27 clearly states that all contact is not a foul and contact that does not prevent a player from normal offensive and defensive movements, should be ruled incidental. This is a perfect example of incidental contact. This is big boy basketball. No one fell to the floor and no one would have cared if nothing was called and everyone would have been talking about that block.

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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 01:08pm
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The Cover Of Rolling Stone (Dr. Hook And The Medicine Show, 1972) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am not trying to tell others what to think about to help them be consistent.
Why not?

You're a very successful basketball official in multiple states. You've got all that experience (on two levels). You've got the resume. You've got all those state finals under your black belt. You've been on the cover of Referee magazine. I believe that you've been a trainer/clinician/interpreter/instructor/camp counselor, etc. You've obviously figured out the puzzle (a difficult puzzle for many) of how to be a successful basketball official (as well as a successful state finals level official of two other sports, most likely with some dove-tailing between the three sports). You got a lot to offer (tricks of the trade) both inexperienced officials, and veteran officials.

Why not share?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon May 03, 2021 at 03:23pm.
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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 01:11pm
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I did share, but people learn and understand differently. It is up to the person to buy in, not for me to dictate. I will say it this way, there are many high school officials that do not want to learn anything but what they did 20 years ago. You cannot help everyone.

Peace
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Old Mon May 03, 2021, 01:22pm
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Al Dente Advice ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... people learn and understand differently. It is up to the person to buy in ... you cannot help everyone ...


Just throw everything against the wall. Some will stick, some won't. Only a fool would totally refuse to, at least, listen to you. After listening, it's on them to pick and choose, to follow your advice, in whole, or in part, or look in another direction.

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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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