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Old Mon Apr 26, 2021, 02:42pm
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Women Refs in the NBA

Very good story on espn.com about a woman ref who started out working youth league games, then over-came the barriers of sexism, male hubris, and all to become a top level NBA ref. She even said that after her games, there's always moms and young daughters who are lined up and giving her "high fives" as congratulations for making it that far and being a model of what a girl can achieve despite stringent barriers. I thought this story was great motivation for pulling more young folks into reffing games bcz according to NASO, the average age of basketball officials at the highschool level is 56 years old!
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Old Tue Apr 27, 2021, 11:51am
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Good Official ...

Whether it was me as a high school basketball player, or me as a middle school basketball coach, or me as a high school basketball official, as long as someone was good official, it never mattered to me what gender they were, or thought they were; what color they were; where they worshiped, or didn't worship; where they, or their parents, or their grandparents, came from; or who they shared their bed with.

One exception, my younger daughter played basketball from middle school through high school (even played a little in medical school) at a very high level, including helping her AAU team win an international tournament in Spain, and never had a female official work any of her games. I wish that she had some female officials as role models back then.
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Old Tue Apr 27, 2021, 04:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Very good story on espn.com about a woman ref who started out working youth league games, then over-came the barriers of sexism, male hubris, and all to become a top level NBA ref. She even said that after her games, there's always moms and young daughters who are lined up and giving her "high fives" as congratulations for making it that far and being a model of what a girl can achieve despite stringent barriers. I thought this story was great motivation for pulling more young folks into reffing games bcz according to NASO, the average age of basketball officials at the highschool level is 56 years old!
Wow, could you provide a link? I'd be glad to read that story. I'm on board with any female official getting promoted to higher levels as long as they are good at what they do.
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Old Tue Apr 27, 2021, 10:27pm
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Here you go: https://www.espn.com/espnw/story/_/i...espn:nba:index

All I got to say is, all the recent female hires for the NBA were in the G-League for 3 years, according to their bios on NBRA. Recent male hires in the past 3 years? 3 years, 5 years, 7 years, hell one guy at 12 years.

I'm not saying they don't belong there, but it's clear that they're looking for a certain type (which is fine). And as a minority who has taken full advantage of affirmative action, I'm cool with it. But let's not paint this as if it's not "social work" according to McCutchen. Adam Silver said the other year that he wanted more female refs, and they got them. End of story.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 06:04am
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Originally Posted by Player989random View Post
Here you go: https://www.espn.com/espnw/story/_/i...espn:nba:index



All I got to say is, all the recent female hires for the NBA were in the G-League for 3 years, according to their bios on NBRA. Recent male hires in the past 3 years? 3 years, 5 years, 7 years, hell one guy at 12 years.



I'm not saying they don't belong there, but it's clear that they're looking for a certain type (which is fine). And as a minority who has taken full advantage of affirmative action, I'm cool with it. But let's not paint this as if it's not "social work" according to McCutchen. Adam Silver said the other year that he wanted more female refs, and they got them. End of story.
The NBA recently changed its mindset about how long they will develop officials in the G League before they give up on them as being NBA prospects. If they are not ready in 3-5 years they're not going to make it anymore.

The person who was in the G-League for 12 years is a personal friend of mine. At one time he was told his chance had passed. I was very surprised when he got hired full time after spending so much time in the G league and WNBA. His story is not going to happen anymore. Just like you're not going to see people like me anymore who didn't start officiating until 37 and got hired into D1 basketball at 45.

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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 07:01am.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 06:47am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
The NBA recently changed its mindset about how long they will develop officials in the G League before they give up on them as being NBA prospects. If they are not ready in 3-5 years they're not going to make it anymore.

The person who was in the G-League for 12 years is a personal friend of mine. At one time he was told his chance had past. I was very surprised when he got hired full time after spending so much time in the G league and WNBA. His story is not going to happen anymore. Just like you're not going to see people like me anymore who didn't start officiating until 37 and got hired into D1 basketball at 45.

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I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:30am
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I guess the best/most efficient route to becoming an NBA ref is to just "decide and commit" early in your reffing career and bypass multiple years of high-school and college reffing. Their process is so standardized that it can be done by joining up with G league and slogging through their clinics and games, instead of doing HS and or NCAA reffing as apparently those are not "stepping stones" towards an NBA reffing job?
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:51am
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Moved Up The Chart With A Bullet ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
I guess the best/most efficient route to becoming an NBA ref is to just "decide and commit" early in your reffing career and bypass multiple years of high-school and college reffing. Their process is so standardized that it can be done by joining up with G league and slogging through their clinics and games, instead of doing HS and or NCAA reffing as apparently those are not "stepping stones" towards an NBA reffing job?
I'm not sure, but I believe that we have a Forum member whose two children did pretty much what Kansas Ref described, going professional (G League, WNBA) at a very young age.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 11:59am
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For the record, it has been some years that it was required you officiate a lot of anything else but in their system. The NBA is not looking for experienced high school officials to work games and then they hire you through their system. They feel they can train you in the ways of their system and if you have the talent you will advance. It has been that way for some time now. It is becoming more and more like that at the college level as well. Some guys are getting to D1 with less than 5 years under their belt and one of the reasons is they will acclimate you to the system or ways of doing things and put you in situations to succeed.

Also, it is not like high school basketball is helping foster higher-level officials either. Some of the best officials I know are younger and they cannot even sniff varsity or tournaments because they are not around for a decade or more. Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?

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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 12:37pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?
Back thirty-five years ago, I had some colleagues who worked both high school and college who tried to recruit me into their world of DII or DIII basketball. For many reasons I decided not to go that route, mainly due to travel.

It may be different today, but those Connecticut guys who worked small college games back then were assigned all over the Northeast, from Maine to Eastern Pennsylvania.

I couldn't imagine me traveling such distances in Northeast winter weather.

I had family with three kids, and a day job as a middle school teacher and coach, so I decided to stay here in my little corner of Connecticut (longest one way drive is fifty minutes, average one way drive time is about twenty minutes) working little high school games.

I never looked back.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Apr 28, 2021 at 05:30pm.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 01:05pm
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Funny you mention this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
. Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?

Peace
This was my EXACT mentality until this past year, when I decided not to officiate due to the pandemic. And now, after skipping what would have been season #21 of HS and #8 of small college, I'm thinking less about the money and more about time with my 2-year-old son. If someone needs the income, different story. But for someone like me, who was working a 50/50 college/HS split of about 35-40 games a year, I can drop my college schedule and the additional commitment that comes with it (camps, film study, on-site 90 minutes early, 2-hours in the car each way, etc)...and it'll cost me maybe $2k at most.

Everyone has their priorities.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 01:15pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm not sure, but I believe that we have a Forum member whose two children did pretty much what Kansas Ref described, going professional (G League, WNBA) at a very young age.
They worked HS and lower level college games with me. So did their cousin who is now an NBA official.

You don't just "join up" to the G-League. The NBA has scouts who attend HS and college games, camps, and higher level AAU type tournaments to see officials who are on the radar. The NBA also has all sorts of Grassroots camps to identify talent.

The NBA does prefer getting their hands on officials before they been indoctrinated by the local vets with bad habits. If you are athletic and can run very well, they figure they can teach you how to officiate.

My HS commissioner and his top trainer are NBA officials. They really don't want the longtime, grizzled vets imparting too much advice on the up-and-coming officials who have potential to break into the NBA or D1 basketball.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 01:38pm
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Air Bud ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
They worked HS and lower level college games with me.
I didn't mean to imply that they started in the G-League, or the WNBA, but they seemed to go professional at a very young age. I only became an online friend of their Dad a few years ago and maybe I got the wrong impression regarding their age and amateur experience. Dad's seems to be a nice guy and is a good online friend, but please don't tell him that I said that. By the way, he's not the third best official in the family, it's his lovely wife, or the dog, and you can tell him that I said that, he's heard it from me before.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 04:22pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
My HS commissioner and his top trainer are NBA officials. They really don't want the longtime, grizzled vets imparting too much advice on the up-and-coming officials who have potential to break into the NBA or D1 basketball.
This.

Because often the "advice" you get from high school officials who have been "doing this for 30 years" is quite frankly, garbage.
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Old Wed Apr 28, 2021, 07:18pm
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Originally Posted by Matt S. View Post
This was my EXACT mentality until this past year, when I decided not to officiate due to the pandemic. And now, after skipping what would have been season #21 of HS and #8 of small college, I'm thinking less about the money and more about time with my 2-year-old son. If someone needs the income, different story. But for someone like me, who was working a 50/50 college/HS split of about 35-40 games a year, I can drop my college schedule and the additional commitment that comes with it (camps, film study, on-site 90 minutes early, 2-hours in the car each way, etc)...and it'll cost me maybe $2k at most.

Everyone has their priorities.
I have worked all the State Finals I can work at the high school level, so working high school is fun and has appeal, but not the end all be all. I want to do some other things in my career. Certainly not about the money, but I would rather work a college game over an hour away and make 3 times as much than working a high school with less accountability of the participants and more accountability for me and my partners. I just like the challenge and so do others. And when you are in your 20s with not the same family dynamic in your life, those checks matter.

Peace
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