Women Refs in the NBA

[Player989random]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The NBA recently changed its mindset about how long they will develop officials in the G League before they give up on them as being NBA prospects. If they are not ready in 3-5 years they're not going to make it anymore.

The person who was in the G-League for 12 years is a personal friend of mine. At one time he was told his chance had past. I was very surprised when he got hired full time after spending so much time in the G league and WNBA. His story is not going to happen anymore. Just like you're not going to see people like me anymore who didn't start officiating until 37 and got hired into D1 basketball at 45.

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I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

[Kansas Ref]

I guess the best/most efficient route to becoming an NBA ref is to just "decide and commit" early in your reffing career and bypass multiple years of high-school and college reffing. Their process is so standardized that it can be done by joining up with G league and slogging through their clinics and games, instead of doing HS and or NCAA reffing as apparently those are not "stepping stones" towards an NBA reffing job?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I guess the best/most efficient route to becoming an NBA ref is to just "decide and commit" early in your reffing career and bypass multiple years of high-school and college reffing. Their process is so standardized that it can be done by joining up with G league and slogging through their clinics and games, instead of doing HS and or NCAA reffing as apparently those are not "stepping stones" towards an NBA reffing job?

I'm not sure, but I believe that we have a Forum member whose two children did pretty much what Kansas Ref described, going professional (G League, WNBA) at a very young age.

[JRutledge]

For the record, it has been some years that it was required you officiate a lot of anything else but in their system. The NBA is not looking for experienced high school officials to work games and then they hire you through their system. They feel they can train you in the ways of their system and if you have the talent you will advance. It has been that way for some time now. It is becoming more and more like that at the college level as well. Some guys are getting to D1 with less than 5 years under their belt and one of the reasons is they will acclimate you to the system or ways of doing things and put you in situations to succeed.

Also, it is not like high school basketball is helping foster higher-level officials either. Some of the best officials I know are younger and they cannot even sniff varsity or tournaments because they are not around for a decade or more. Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?

Back thirty-five years ago, I had some colleagues who worked both high school and college who tried to recruit me into their world of DII or DIII basketball. For many reasons I decided not to go that route, mainly due to travel.

It may be different today, but those Connecticut guys who worked small college games back then were assigned all over the Northeast, from Maine to Eastern Pennsylvania.

I couldn't imagine me traveling such distances in Northeast winter weather.

I had family with three kids, and a day job as a middle school teacher and coach, so I decided to stay here in my little corner of Connecticut (longest one way drive is fifty minutes, average one way drive time is about twenty minutes) working little high school games.

I never looked back.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Back thirty-five years ago, I had some colleagues who worked both high school and college who tried to recruit me into their world of DII or DIII basketball. For many reasons I decided not to go that route, mainly due to travel.

It may be different today, but those Connecticut guys who worked small college games back then were assigned all over the Northeast, from Maine to Eastern Pennsylvania.

I couldn't imagine me traveling such distances in Northeast winter weather.

I had family with three kids, and a day job as a middle school teacher and coach, so I decided to stay here in my little corner of Connecticut (longest one way drive is fifty minutes, average one way drive time is about twenty minutes) working little high school games.

I never looked back.

I rather spend one night driving a couple hours for $190 then spending three nights driving 30 to 45 minutes for $65 a pop. A night working high school ball, no matter how close to home, is still a night away from loved ones.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I rather spend one night driving a couple hours for $190 then spending three nights driving 30 to 45 minutes for $65 a pop. A night working high school ball, no matter how close to home, is still a night away from loved ones.

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Exactly. Justifies staying away from home. And some of those games are much more than $200 as well.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And when you are in your 20s with not the same family dynamic in your life, those checks matter.

Those checks also matter when one has a family. A know a lot of guys that use their basketball fees for golf, poker nights, fishing/hunting vacations, sports season/regular tickets, or casinos. One colleague has a separate bank account just for his basketball money, it's his money, not his family's money.

While I had many reasons to officiate, for the first thirty years (teachers were not always appropriately well paid in Connecticut) one main reason was to support my family, especially the kid's college fund. It was just about the only reason I worked recreation/travel basketball for all those many years.

Originally Posted by Raymond

A night working high school ball, no matter how close to home, is still a night away from loved ones.

You're correct. I missed reading my three kids bedtime stories, and left the busy and hectic bath/bed routine solely to my wife four, or five, weeknights a week from early December through early March for my kid's entire childhood.

But it was actually the Saturdays and Sundays that kept me away from small college basketball. I couldn't imagine spending an entire weekend day away from the family, and missing my kids participate in basketball, gymnastics, indoor track, drama, or dance, especially after being away most weeknights.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I rather spend one night driving a couple hours for $190 then spending three nights driving 30 to 45 minutes for $65 a pop. A night working high school ball, no matter how close to home, is still a night away from loved ones.

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And there are non-money reasons for choosing college over HS, as well. Even at lower levels.

At the top of my list, the coaches are smarter and better-behaved. And they are used to getting penalized when they misbehave. I have worked with countless HS officials who wouldn't call a T if their life depended on it. So I end up cleaning their mess.

[Matt S.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

. Why would I work a game for $65 when I can get games for $185 to $200 for some small college basketball games?

Peace

This was my EXACT mentality until this past year, when I decided not to officiate due to the pandemic. And now, after skipping what would have been season #21 of HS and #8 of small college, I'm thinking less about the money and more about time with my 2-year-old son. If someone needs the income, different story. But for someone like me, who was working a 50/50 college/HS split of about 35-40 games a year, I can drop my college schedule and the additional commitment that comes with it (camps, film study, on-site 90 minutes early, 2-hours in the car each way, etc)...and it'll cost me maybe $2k at most.

Everyone has their priorities.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Matt S.

This was my EXACT mentality until this past year, when I decided not to officiate due to the pandemic. And now, after skipping what would have been season #21 of HS and #8 of small college, I'm thinking less about the money and more about time with my 2-year-old son. If someone needs the income, different story. But for someone like me, who was working a 50/50 college/HS split of about 35-40 games a year, I can drop my college schedule and the additional commitment that comes with it (camps, film study, on-site 90 minutes early, 2-hours in the car each way, etc)...and it'll cost me maybe $2k at most.

Everyone has their priorities.

I have worked all the State Finals I can work at the high school level, so working high school is fun and has appeal, but not the end all be all. I want to do some other things in my career. Certainly not about the money, but I would rather work a college game over an hour away and make 3 times as much than working a high school with less accountability of the participants and more accountability for me and my partners. I just like the challenge and so do others. And when you are in your 20s with not the same family dynamic in your life, those checks matter.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not sure, but I believe that we have a Forum member whose two children did pretty much what Kansas Ref described, going professional (G League, WNBA) at a very young age.

They worked HS and lower level college games with me. So did their cousin who is now an NBA official.

You don't just "join up" to the G-League. The NBA has scouts who attend HS and college games, camps, and higher level AAU type tournaments to see officials who are on the radar. The NBA also has all sorts of Grassroots camps to identify talent.

The NBA does prefer getting their hands on officials before they been indoctrinated by the local vets with bad habits. If you are athletic and can run very well, they figure they can teach you how to officiate.

My HS commissioner and his top trainer are NBA officials. They really don't want the longtime, grizzled vets imparting too much advice on the up-and-coming officials who have potential to break into the NBA or D1 basketball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

They worked HS and lower level college games with me.

I didn't mean to imply that they started in the G-League, or the WNBA, but they seemed to go professional at a very young age. I only became an online friend of their Dad a few years ago and maybe I got the wrong impression regarding their age and amateur experience. Dad's seems to be a nice guy and is a good online friend, but please don't tell him that I said that. By the way, he's not the third best official in the family, it's his lovely wife, or the dog, and you can tell him that I said that, he's heard it from me before.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

My HS commissioner and his top trainer are NBA officials. They really don't want the longtime, grizzled vets imparting too much advice on the up-and-coming officials who have potential to break into the NBA or D1 basketball.

This.

Because often the "advice" you get from high school officials who have been "doing this for 30 years" is quite frankly, garbage.