Warning ???

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

[I]Rule 4 - Section 48 Warning For Coach/Team Conduct
A warning to a head coach/bench personnel for misconduct is an administrative procedure by an official, which is recorded in the scorebook by the scorer and reported to the head coach.
Art. 1 For conduct, such as that described in Rule 10-5, Articles 1 (a, b d, e, f), 2 and 4, the official must warn the head coach unless the offense is judged to be major, in which case a technical foul must be assessed.
Note: A warning is not required prior to calling a technical foul.
Art. 2 For the first violation of Rule 10-6-1, the official must warn the head coach unless the offense is judged to be major, in which case a technical foul must be assessed.
Note: A warning is not required prior to calling a technical foul.

I can't find anywhere where the book explicitly states anything like, "a technical foul assessed to a team under 10-5 before a warning is issued under 4-48, also counts as that team's warning."

However, I can draw that conclusion from the wording in the ruling from Case Book 10.5.1 Situation A (page 84).


Play: At halftime, as the teams, coaches and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member inappropriately addresses one of the officials.

Ruling: The official must decide if the offense is major. Under 4-48, if not deemed to be major and neither a warning nor technical has been charged (direct or indirect) to the head coach, the bench personnel could be issued a warning. If a warning is issued, this would be reported to both teams, recorded in the scorebook, and the head coach would not lose coaching-box privileges. If the offense was judged to be major or a warning or technical has already been issued to the head coach, a technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach resulting in the loss of coaching-box privileges.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

I can't find anywhere where the book explicitly states anything like, "a technical foul assessed to a team under 10-5 before a warning is issued under 4-48, also counts as that team's warning."

Agree, and I've spent all day looking.

This takes care of part of the issue (no behavior warning after first behavior violation (warning or technical foul)): For the first violation of Rule 10-6-1, the official must warn the head coach unless the offense is judged to be major, in which case a technical foul must be assessed. It only states "first violation", not second violation.

IAABO quiz states to also "issue the warning" after a technical foul for the first behavior "violation". Would like to understand the basis for their ruling, if there is one, or maybe they're wrong.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree, and I've spent all day looking.



Close, but no cigar.

Change "major" to "minor" and then we're cooking with gas.

If it was major OR a T or warning was previously issued...

So, if a T was previously issued, there's no need for a warning. So, the first T serves as a warning.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So, if a T was previously issued, there's no need for a warning. So, the first T serves as a warning.

Thanks for your time, effort, and input.

IAABO quiz states to do both for one event, the technical foul and a warning.

Would like to understand the basis for their ruling, if there is one, or maybe they're wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it was major OR a T or warning was previously issued... So, if a T was previously issued, there's no need for a warning. So, the first T serves as a warning.

Deleted "major' comet after you spotted it. My post didn't make sense to me (neither did Mike Goodwin's try at a helpful interpretation). Sorry.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

I can't find anywhere where the book explicitly states anything like, "a technical foul assessed to a team under 10-5 before a warning is issued under 4-48, also counts as that team's warning."

However, I can draw that conclusion from the wording in the ruling from Case Book 10.5.1 Situation A (page 84).


Play: At halftime, as the teams, coaches and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member inappropriately addresses one of the officials.

Ruling: The official must decide if the offense is major. Under 4-48, if not deemed to be major and neither a warning nor technical has been charged (direct or indirect) to the head coach, the bench personnel could be issued a warning. If a warning is issued, this would be reported to both teams, recorded in the scorebook, and the head coach would not lose coaching-box privileges. If the offense was judged to be major or a warning or technical has already been issued to the head coach, a technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach resulting in the loss of coaching-box privileges.

This play ruling from the case book clarifies that once a technical foul has been issued to bench personnel no warning may thereafter be issued. The subsequent poor behavior is simply a technical foul. So to answer BillyMac’s question, yes, a team does lose the privilege of a behavior warning to bench personnel once a technical foul has been issued.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

Case Book 10.5.1 Situation A. Play: At halftime, as the teams, coaches and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member inappropriately addresses one of the officials. Ruling: The official must decide if the offense is major. Under 4-48, if not deemed to be major and neither a warning nor technical has been charged (direct or indirect) to the head coach, the bench personnel could be issued a warning. If a warning is issued, this would be reported to both teams, recorded in the scorebook, and the head coach would not lose coaching-box privileges. If the offense was judged to be major or a warning or technical has already been issued to the head coach, a technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach resulting in the loss of coaching-box privileges.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... didn't make sense to me (neither did Mike Goodwin's try at a helpful interpretation).

Originally Posted by Raymond

Mike did an excellent job of finding an applicable case play from which to draw our conclusion that the technical serves as a warning.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This play ruling from the case book clarifies that once a technical foul has been issued to bench personnel no warning may thereafter be issued. The subsequent poor behavior is simply a technical foul ... a team does lose the privilege of a behavior warning to bench personnel once a technical foul has been issued.

I never meant to imply that Mike Goodwin's casebook play was not helpful in confirming a rule citation (4-48-2 "first violation") that I had already posted earlier (Post #9), but that it wasn't helpful in dealing with the probable mistake of IAABO wanting an additional "issued warning".

Sorry Mike Goodwin. Thanks.