NCAAW Baylor/UConn

[SC Official]

0.4 left in the game. You calling anything there?

[Raymond]

If I'm the Lead on that play with that time and score scenario, I'm mirroring the ball and coming over to help referee that play.

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[JRutledge]

Nope. Two defenders and leaning back? Nope. Take a better shot.

Peace

[Raymond]

And yes, I have a foul on that play. Post players always like to walk into shooters.

I have significant contact from A to B movement and also she didn't keep her arms vertical and came down on the shooter.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

And yes, I have a foul on that play. Post players always like to walk into shooters.

I have significant contact from A to B movement and also she didn't keep her arms vertical and came down on the shooter.

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Agree...there was clear contact. Too bad the C and L were stacked to it. The T needed to realized the game situation and that it was the only play that was going to matter. The T had the only angle that could clearly have seen it. The T needed to go get that. If the T had, the only ones talking about that play would be us (about whether it was a right for the T to go get it) instead of everyone else.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree...there was clear contact. Too bad the C and L were stacked to it. The T needed to realized the game situation and that it was the only play that was going to matter. The T had the only angle that could clearly have seen it. The T needed to go get that. If the T had, the only ones talking about that play would be us (about whether it was a right for the T to go get it) instead of everyone else.

Yeah, I mentioned that somewhere else on social media. As soon as the ball handler went away from the Trail, the Trail needed to step down and be ready to help referee anything in the paint.

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[JRutledge]

Yeah there is contact, with not one, but two bigger players in her face trying to shoot? Yeah, that contact is going to happen. It was a horrible shot, absolutely horrible. They knew she was going to shoot and met her with their size. We do not expect that kind of contact in Men's games. This to me is a girl's or woman's basketball thing. Players fall we must have something or else. We would not be arguing if Shaq was defending Allen Iverson on a shot like this with his teammate Dennis Rodman right next to Shaq. We would say things I have heard over the years, "pass the ball" or "Do not take on bigger players on that shot." The play by the Baylor player was pure desparation, not a quality or very warranted shot.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Baylor coach Kim Mulkey, who believed without question that Carrington was fouled on her drive down the left side.

"You don't need a quote from me," Mulkey said. "I've got still shots and video from two angles. One (UConn) kid hits her in the face, one kid hits her on the elbow."

Auriemma attributed the non-foul call to "the nature of sports," and challenged anyone who wished to check every single call throughout the game and add them up.

"I mean, you could go back and forth, the whole thing," Auriemma said. "The bottom line is the officials did what they're going to do. It is what it is. I'm not going to sit here and apologize for it. And if people are going to want to talk about that the rest of the week, you're welcome to do that."

Video: https://twitter.com/i/status/1376704066668093445

[todd66]

picture worth a 1000 words. Hand on the elbow. Defenders outside their vertical plane. FOUL! Unfortunately, live speed and poor positioning made this hard to see.

[bob jenkins]

A discussion can be had on whether the offensive player's contact caused the defenders' hands to come down to make contact.

[todd66]

Their torsos are not vertical. They are leaning forward. Contact by an offensive player would not cause that.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah there is contact, with not one, but two bigger players in her face trying to shoot? Yeah, that contact is going to happen. It was a horrible shot, absolutely horrible. They knew she was going to shoot and met her with their size. We do not expect that kind of contact in Men's games. This to me is a girl's or woman's basketball thing. Players fall we must have something or else. We would not be arguing if Shaq was defending Allen Iverson on a shot like this with his teammate Dennis Rodman right next to Shaq. We would say things I have heard over the years, "pass the ball" or "Do not take on bigger players on that shot." The play by the Baylor player was pure desparation, not a quality or very warranted shot.

Peace

I tend to agree with you. I feel like if you called this in a men’s game, especially at that point in the game, it would be considered a “bail out” foul by a clinician or assigner. It was a horrible play-call and a desperation shot. I have somewhat reconsidered that position given that I have heard from multiple men’s officials who believe it’s a foul (including this thread), but I’m still not convinced I would have called anything.

I also don’t really care what a still picture shows. We don’t get to officiate frame-by-frame and if the contact with the defender’s torso caused the arms to not be vertical, a still frame is not going to tell that story.

[Raymond]

I've called this foul plenty of times. Post players like to walk into shooters with their hands up thinking that absolves them from illegal contact. They also like to straighten their arms up after contact as if they didn't come down on the shooter.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A discussion can be had on whether the offensive player's contact caused the defenders' hands to come down to make contact.

There are plays where that can be discussed. They are plays where the offense is moving into the defender and causes the arms to collapse. That contact usually causes the head and shoulders to move forward as well.

I don't see that at all on this play. On this play only the arms come down.

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[JRutledge]

The problem with only pictures are we are seeing only a moment in time. If the defenders contacted the ball mostly and not anything else, then there was contact after the shooter forces the shot, that is a different spin on the play. Even if the arm was contacted first and then contact with the ball, that again is a different spin on the play. I will post a video of the other angle and show how much there was no contact until the blocked ball started. This to me was more about her taking on bigger players and not getting off a good shot. She was not getting off a good shot anyway and we would ignore this easily if the ball it touched or mostly touched, especially first.

This is the kind of foul I expect of those that primarily work girl's or women's games. Because again if a bigger men's player defends and even makes slight contact with other parts of the body, we definitely say, "Play on." And if you call a foul, they will directly tell you about bailing out players and marginal contact. I even had a foul call posted on my site several months back and the contact was on the wrist and not even the ball on a 3 point shot and people complained that the ball was gone and it had no influence on the play. This was not that at all. That very same official that made that call I just referenced is my supervior in one of my leagues. I had a play a couple of years ago where I had an A to B contact play, was told that the play was not a foul by my supervisor and by others and there was no ball contact whatsoever. But when I made the call, I got so much shit about it, I posted it on a website to ask for opinions. More contact there than on this play in the Baylor UConn game for sure.





Peace