NCAAW Baylor/UConn

[JRutledge]

The problem with only pictures are we are seeing only a moment in time. If the defenders contacted the ball mostly and not anything else, then there was contact after the shooter forces the shot, that is a different spin on the play. Even if the arm was contacted first and then contact with the ball, that again is a different spin on the play. I will post a video of the other angle and show how much there was no contact until the blocked ball started. This to me was more about her taking on bigger players and not getting off a good shot. She was not getting off a good shot anyway and we would ignore this easily if the ball it touched or mostly touched, especially first.

This is the kind of foul I expect of those that primarily work girl's or women's games. Because again if a bigger men's player defends and even makes slight contact with other parts of the body, we definitely say, "Play on." And if you call a foul, they will directly tell you about bailing out players and marginal contact. I even had a foul call posted on my site several months back and the contact was on the wrist and not even the ball on a 3 point shot and people complained that the ball was gone and it had no influence on the play. This was not that at all. That very same official that made that call I just referenced is my supervior in one of my leagues. I had a play a couple of years ago where I had an A to B contact play, was told that the play was not a foul by my supervisor and by others and there was no ball contact whatsoever. But when I made the call, I got so much shit about it, I posted it on a website to ask for opinions. More contact there than on this play in the Baylor UConn game for sure.





Peace

[BillyMac]

[BillyMac]

From this video, it appears to me that the Center did get straight-lined.

Even with the limitations of a still photo, combine the still photo (far above) together with the live video, and the replay video from the near side and far side, to get the best idea (short of new videos from new angles) of what really happened, something the Lead (who didn't rotate over to the ball side) and the Center (straight-lined) were unable to see.

Trail maybe had the best angle but was she too far away to make a game saving call?

[SC Official]

You're never "too far away to make a game saving call." Especially when you have the best look on the crew.

But you had better be correct if you are the furthest away and putting air in the whistle with 0.4 left in the Elite Eight.

This is not a "strike down the middle" like the Auburn/Virginia play a couple years ago IMO. I just talked to a women's NCAA official who thought a no-call was correct. But I have also talked to peers who feel there had to be a whistle here. I guess our NCAAW Forum members will have to let us know if this play makes next season's preseason video.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Have you seen this video that I posted earlier today?

Video: https://twitter.com/i/status/1376704066668093445

I have seen this play about 3 different angles. The angle from the picture that you and everyone has shown to say it was a foul. The endline angle which I made a video showing the ball being touched by the defender first. And the camera feed angle from the live action.

I think it is not a foul at all and we are playing the "There was contact" game that is bogus. Of course there was contact, two bigger players are defending a shot.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Worst angle is the live camera feed.

Still photo clearly shows contact on DiJonai Carrington's shooting elbow by #20 Olivia Nelson-Ododa before the ball is released.

I agree, but still 4-27 (or the NCAA Women's equivilent) applies.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Endline angle video clearly shows #3 Aaliyah Edwards moving forward (A to B) toward Carrington and then through and past Carrington's original position, with Carrington ending up on the floor.

She is absolutely moving forward, but she does not make any contact with the player until she tops the ball. And that is usually not how A to B contact is judged at that level when there is a clear play on the ball. Women do not usually do that contact as high in the air.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sure, Carrington's leaning back off balance to avoid a blocked shot might have had something to do with her ending up on the floor, but the body contact by Edwards certainly helped. Watch where Edwards ends up after the contact.

And it is a great girl's basketball call that would be scolded if called in the very same situation in a boy's or men's game. Been there and called some BS and was told about it directly. I am not stating anything I have not experienced and told why I should lay off that call at both the high school and college levels.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

....





And it is a great girl's basketball call that would be scolded if called in the very same situation in a boy's or men's game. Been there and called some BS and was told about it directly. I am not stating anything I have not experienced and told why I should lay off that call at both the high school and college levels.



Peace

I would not get scolded for making that call in any of my NCAA Men's basketball games or boys HS games.



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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I would not get scolded for making that call in any of my NCAA Men's basketball games or boys HS games.

I would. It would start with the coaches, then the fans (don't care about them but mentioning it for context), then later some of my partners and supervisor. Happened a few times.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Protect the airborne shooter all the way back down to the floor.

Especially since Carrington was pushed while still holding the ball after the ball was "topped" by the Edwards.

Then we do not call very many fouls as a community. Again when you show me a block that does not involve contact of some kind, then I will show you a bunch of free throw we do not reward. Again, all contact is never a foul. Even the airborne shooter rule does not say any contact is a foul. That is why 4-27 is there, clearly.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then we do not call very many fouls as a community.

Protect does not mean to call every single instance of contact a foul. Never did. It means to stay with the the airborne shooter and watch for illegal contact that creates an defensive advantage, or an offensive disadvantage, as well considering landing spot safety concerns. It also means that for a second, or two, to let your partner(s) worry about the rebounding fouls.

In Carrington's case, she hadn't even released the ball when she got pushed, certainly a illegal disadvantage for an airborne shooter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Protect does not mean to call every single instance of contact a foul. Never did. It means to stay with the the airborne shooter and watch for illegal contact that creates an defensive advantage, or an offensive disadvantage, as well considering landing spot safety concerns. It also means that for a second, or two, to let your partner(s) worry about the rebounding fouls.

In Carrington's case, she hadn't even released the ball when she got pushed, certainly a illegal disadvantage for an airborne shooter.

We see plays like this not called all the time. Why is this so special about the airborne shooter? We see airborne shooters get their shot blocked and fall with some contact and nothing happens. No one makes a fuss about it. But because this is a high profile situation, everyone now wants to go to the shooter must be protected at all cost. Just find it funny how I watch games, show plays and see how the game is called much of the time and now this is a bridge too far.

Just funny to me. This is basically a call if was in the Men's game no one would care. IJS

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We see plays like this not called all the time. Why is this so special about the airborne shooter? We see airborne shooters get their shot blocked and fall with some contact and nothing happens. No one makes a fuss about it. But because this is a high profile situation, everyone now wants to go to the shooter must be protected at all cost. Just find it funny how I watch games, show plays and see how the game is called much of the time and now this is a bridge too far.

Just funny to me. This is basically a call if was in the Men's game no one would care. IJS

Peace

My opinion about this play would be the same if were a Men's game. I've seen similar end-of-game situations discussed in clinics and camps I've attended over the years.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Again, this isn't one of those plays where the contact is after the shot is released and the question becomes whether, or not, the contact put the safe landing of the airborne shooter at risk, and not a question of whether, or not, the contact affected the trajectory of the shot. This isn't one of those plays.

In this case, Carrington hadn't even released the ball when she got pushed, she still had the ball in her hands, certainly an illegal disadvantage for an airborne shooter, or any shooter. In fact, it would still be an illegal disadvantage is she wasn't an airborne shooter (which she was) and was a "grounded" shooter (which she wasn't).

Airborne, or not, Carrington was shooting the ball when she got pushed. Call it "in the act" if one wishes, but she was shooting the ball and got "body pushed", and the trajectory of her shot was negatively impacted.

Sure, she had no business attacking two taller defenders with open teammates in the most important play of her college career, and I don't know if Kim Mulkey drew up that play in the manner in which it was executed, but that's still a foul, and unfortunately for Baylor, two of the three officials most likely to make this call didn't get a good look (straight lined, and didn't rotate).

When I say that she went against bigger players, it is without question a chance that the bigger players will contact you and even knock you down. So again the ball was contacted before anybody contact and 4-27 still applies when you have a blocked shot when the ball was touched first.

Peace