With A Little Help From My Friends (The Beatles, 1967) ...

[BillyMac]

I'm stumped by an IAABO Refresher Exam question:

1) A-5 taps the jump ball toward the sideline. A-l steps on the sideline and then catches the ball. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer set the alternating possession arrow in the direction of Team B's basket. Is the official correct?

I say the official is not correct, the alternating possession arrow should be set in the direction of Team A's basket, but I'm unsure of my answer.

Can anybody help me out with the correct answer, and a rulebook or casebook citation to explain the correct interpretation, even if I'm correct?

It's an open book exam and my local board not only allows, but encourages, collaboration.

[BillyMac]

Two more. I'm pretty sure about my answers, but would like confirmation.

My regular pizza and beer collaboration group is not meeting due to COVID.



2) After a successful field goal by Team B, A-1 releases a throw-in pass that is intentionally kicked by B-1 near the end line. The official awards the ball to Team A and instructs them that they may still move along the end line. Is the official correct?

My answer: No. Designated spot due to Team B violation. Kick touch ended the throwin.

3) A-5 grabs a rebound. After A-5 jumps to shoot, B-2 pushes A-2 into A-5 who then releases the try. The ball goes through the basket. The official rules a foul on B-2 for pushing A-2. The official also rules no goal since A-2 was not in the act of shooting. Is the official correct?

My answer: No. Count the goal. Continuation.

[Raymond]

#1) Official is incorrect right off the bat b/c the arrow is not set until the ball is at disposal because no one has yet established initial team control.

#2) why are you penalizing the throw-in team?

#3) continuous motion rules applies when the defense commits a foul on a shooter's teammate

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[Camron Rust]

Agree with Raymond on all.

For #2, the reason is that the throwin does not end with an illegal contact....it may end with legal contact in an illegal location (oob). If the original throwin came with the right to run the endline, A retains the right to run the endline for any infraction by B that occurs before the throw-in ends such that the throwin spot will still be on the endline.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree with Raymond on all.

For #2, the reason is that the throwin does not end with an illegal contact....it may end with legal contact in an illegal location (oob). If the original throwin came with the right to run the endline, A retains the right to run the endline for any infraction by B that occurs before the throw-in ends such that the throwin spot will still be on the endline.

Violation (as in the test question) or common foul. It becomes a designated spot on an IP or FP foul (and obviously moves to the division line if it's a T).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2) After a successful field goal by Team B, A-1 releases a throw-in pass that is intentionally kicked by B-1 near the end line. The official awards the ball to Team A and instructs them that they may still move along the end line. Is the official correct?

My answer: No. Designated spot due to Team B violation. Kick touch ended the throwin.

Originally Posted by Raymond

#2) why are you penalizing the throw-in team?

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For #2, the reason is that the throwin does not end with an illegal contact....it may end with legal contact in an illegal location (oob). If the original throwin came with the right to run the endline, A retains the right to run the endline for any infraction by B that occurs before the throw-in ends such that the throwin spot will still be on the endline.

Thanks guys.

7-5-7-B: A throw-in anywhere along the end line after a goal or an
awarded goal for basket interference or goaltending by a defensive player,
as in 9-12 Penalty 1, the team not credited with the score shall make a
throw-in from the end of the court where the goal was made and from any
point outside the end line and the officials shall signal such. A team retains
this privilege if the scoring team commits a violation or common foul (before
the throw-in ends and before the bonus rule is in effect) and the ensuing
throw-in spot would have been on the end line.

4-42-5-A: The throw-in ends when: The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

7.5.7 SITUATION B: Team A scores a field goal. B1 picks up the ball after the made basket, then proceeds out of bounds to start the throw-in process. B1 runs along the end line out of bounds while attempting to find an open teammate for the throw-in. Immediately after B1 releases the throw-in pass, (a) the ball is kicked by A2 near the end line; or (c) the ball is deflected out of bounds across the end line off of A2. RULING: In (a) A2 has violated by kicking the ball. In (a), Team B will be awarded a throw-in and retain the right to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. In (c), A2 legally contacted the ball and subsequently hit it out of bounds, ending the throw-in. Team B is awarded a designated spot throw-in on the end line.

Is the official correct? Yes.

So are Raymond, Camron Rust, and bob jenkins.

How about those for a three person crew?

[Raymond]

So is Raymond, Camron Rust, and bob jenkins

What is not correct as your grammar, and your English teachers from bygone years would not be happy with you.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

What is not correct as your grammar, and your English teachers from bygone years would not be happy with you.

Please don't tell Mr. Baumgartner.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) A-5 taps the jump ball toward the sideline. A-l steps on the sideline and then catches the ball. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer set the alternating possession arrow in the direction of Team B's basket. Is the official correct?

I say the official is not correct, the alternating possession arrow should be set in the direction of Team A's basket, but I'm unsure of my answer.

Can anybody help me out with the correct answer, and a rulebook or casebook citation to explain the correct interpretation, even if I'm correct?

Originally Posted by Raymond

#1) Official is incorrect right off the bat b/c the arrow is not set until the ball is at disposal because no one has yet established initial team control.

Because no one has yet established initial team control inbounds?

4-12-2-A: A team is in control of the ball: When a player of the team is in control.

4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

I agree with Raymond but would appreciate a citation.

[Raymond]

Look up citations that deal with the AP arrow being initially SET.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Look up citations that deal with the AP arrow being initially SET.

I've been all over 4-3 in the rulebook and in the casebook and I can't figure out if player/team control out of bounds makes a difference versus the same situation inbounds?

I think there is a difference (thus my "official is incorrect" answer), but I can't lock it down.

[Raymond]

There is team control out of bounds?

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've been all over 4-3 in the rulebook and in the casebook and I can't figure out if player/team control out of bounds makes a difference versus the same situation inbounds?

I think there is a difference (thus my "official is incorrect" answer), but I can't lock it down.

Didn't FED change the rule where A1 in the BC catches a ball coming from A1'a FC that was deflected by B1? So, it's not simultaneously last to touch and first to touch?

Didn't FED change the rule (about 10 years ago) where A1 catches the jump ball so it's not simultaneously "control" and a violation? (so B gets the ball A gets the arrow).

I'd use both of those as precedent.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

There is team control out of bounds?

Only on a throwin?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Didn't FED change the rule (about 10 years ago) where A1 catches the jump ball so it's not simultaneously "control" and a violation? (so B gets the ball A gets the arrow). I'd use both of those as precedent.

4-12-1: There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a
jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper,
or during an interrupted dribble.

So an illegal possession isn't a possession?