Why can't we be friends?

[Rob_K]

I'm a 9 year head coach, brand new to the officiating forums. I've been in the AAU ranks now for the past 3 years, currently coaching a 14U team. I've already gleaned a ton of info by checking out the forums for a few months now, figured I should join and ask some questions.

I'm pretty laid back, never been T'd or throw out of a game. Probably coached close to 400 games at this point. I understand the 14U skill level can vary, so you have a bunch of kids who are still trying to learn the game. I'm sure that adds to the degree of difficulty for the officials.

On to the questions:

1) I'm sure there's at least one coach you enjoy officiating their games. What is it about that coach that makes it enjoyable?

2) Will what I ask/say change your calls in a game?

3) What's the best way to piss you guys off and have you ignore me (obviously looking for what not to do)?

Appreciate the input!

Rob K

[just another ref]

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Body language means a lot. You can say a lot with your palms open, but don't point your finger at me, and don't shake your fist or punch the air to punctuate your comments. You can speak calmly about what you see.

"He's living in the lane." "He's riding my guy all the way down the floor."

If you don't stick up for your team, nobody will.

Bottom line: Don't talk to me like I work for you, because I don't.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

On to the questions:

1) I'm sure there's at least one coach you enjoy officiating their games. What is it about that coach that makes it enjoyable?

2) Will what I ask/say change your calls in a game?

3) What's the best way to piss you guys off and have you ignore me (obviously looking for what not to do)?

Appreciate the input!

Rob K

1. He holds his players accountable and doesn't blame the officials. He won two state championships by telling kids to "be strong with the ball" when there was a bump, to "make the safe pass" when there was a turnover, to "get better position" when there was a rebounding foul, and to "worry about what we do" or "did you make a good play?" when there was something called by the officials that the kid didn't like. He asked perhaps one question of the officials every five games. His focus was on his players.

2. Only if they relate to a safety issue of which I'm not aware or if a player is repeatedly being permitted to gain an unfair advantage by illegal means. I'll tell you "I'll take a look at that, coach." If it is there during the next few trips, I'll address it, if not, then I'm going to forget about it.

3. Complain about something every trip down the floor. Travel, handcheck, 3-seconds, etc. Also fretting over the little stuff when there is no impact upon play instead of seeing the big picture will lose credibility with me.

If you want to be paid attention to when you speak, then pick your battles so that when you do have a comment, the official can think, "Wow, this guy doesn't say much so perhaps there is something to this."

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. He holds his players accountable and doesn't blame the officials. He won two state championships by telling kids to "be strong with the ball" when there was a bump, to "make the safe pass" when there was a turnover, to "get better position" when there was a rebounding foul, and to "worry about what we do" or "did you make a good play?" when there was something called by the officials that the kid didn't like. He asked perhaps one question of the officials every five games. His focus was on his players.

2. Only if they relate to a safety issue of which I'm not aware or if a player is repeatedly being permitted to gain an unfair advantage by illegal means. I'll tell you "I'll take a look at that, coach." If it is there during the next few trips, I'll address it, if not, then I'm going to forget about it.

3. Complain about something every trip down the floor. Travel, handcheck, 3-seconds, etc. Also fretting over the little stuff when there is no impact upon play instead of seeing the big picture will lose credibility with me.

If you want to be paid attention to when you speak, then pick your battles so that when you do have a comment, the official can think, "Wow, this guy doesn't say much so perhaps there is something to this."

x1000

Sadly those are few and far between...only seen one or two of those rare unicorns.

[Adam]

1. He coaches his players, not the officials.
2. Not really. If you think it's something I didn't see, you might be able to get me to pay attention (dirty play, off ball stuff). Otherwise, feel free to ask me what I saw. I'll return the question if it's an appropriate moment, and maybe we'll both learn something.
3. What Nevada said. Start asking for 'over the back' and 'reaching' fouls and you'll be lucky if I can hear your timeout requests. I'm not ignoring you (the proverbial you), I've just tuned you out for your benefit. Basically, once you demonstrate you don't know basic rules, or as Nevada said, you complain about every single call and no-call.

[maven]

The coaches I enjoy are the ones who make me feel as if we're working together — not so much pals as that we have a common goal of a good, fair, competitive game. When he does speak to me, he asks politely what his player did in a way that suggests he wants to coach the kid better rather than work me.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

1) I'm sure there's at least one coach you enjoy officiating their games. What is it about that coach that makes it enjoyable?

He wears a muffler over his mouth.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

1) I'm sure there's at least one coach you enjoy officiating their games. What is it about that coach that makes it enjoyable?

There's really no one coach but there are many who have different attributes that make it more enjoyable. Those attributes are:

1- They talk to me like they want me to talk to them.
2- They pick their battles. They don't complain about something every time down the floor
3- They listen. If I tell a coach "#52 needs to knock off the chatter," then he needs to take care of #52, not tell me "Well, he's getting pushed all over the court."
4- They realize that we are not looking at plays from the same angle. So what I see, you may not see and vis a versa.

2) Will what I ask/say change your calls in a game?

No. If you're respectful and ask me to take a look at something I will. But realize I've probably already seen it and thought either 1- that's not a foul or 2- I missed that but I won't miss it again.

Know the rules, not the rule myths. Over the back, reaching, those sorts of announcerspeaks are rule myths.

3) What's the best way to piss you guys off and have you ignore me (obviously looking for what not to do)?

It's not really a matter of pissing me off. It's a matter of crossing the line.

Doing one thing probably won't get you a T from me. It will usually take a couple of things. For example, yelling at me, being out of your box or signaling traveling usually want get you a T. But yelling at me while standing 5 feet out of your box will. Yelling and signalling traveling probably will. Standing 5 feet out of your box and signalling traveling probably will.

Coaches that complain about something every time down the floor are going to be ignored. I when I no longer ignore them, it's because I've had enough. That's when ABS technical fouls come in handy.

BTW, remember that a warning is a courtesy. It is not required.


Welcome to the forum.

[stiffler3492]

I can think of several coaches I've worked with over the years who I really enjoy working with. One coach in particular respected both of us on the floor, took the time to learn my name, shake my hand, and ask me how I'm doing every time I saw him.

He's not afraid to ask me a question, but as others have said, it's good to know when to ask a question. It's never anything more than a normal voice tone, either. What I mean by that is, even if he disagrees with what I saw, he will not show me up by yelling and screaming at me. He listens to what I say, says OK, and we're done with it. He's also one of those guys who focuses on his team much more than the officials.

Smile. It's only a game. Joke around with us beforehand. Obviously once the ball is in the air, you become the coach, and we become officials. Outside of the game though, we're just a few guys who love basketball.

Realize that we both have difficult jobs, and sometimes those come in conflict. Handle it like a pro, and we'll do our best to do the same.

Oh yeah, and don't throw any chairs.

[Raymond]

I can answer #2 without much thought

[Rob_K]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Oh yeah, and don't throw any chairs.

Ha! The leagues I play in are smart enough to take those off the court.

Really appreciate the replies so far, this is some excellent stuff. Great insight for a coach, look forward to more.

I know you guys probably don't like dealing with less experienced coaches, same goes for us with the officials. It's harder to lay back when you see a newer official start to get intimidated by the opposing coach or parents in the stands. Any tips for dealing with an official who is obviously new to the courts?

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

Any tips for dealing with an official who is obviously new to the courts?

Find the nearest bar after the game.

Joking of course.

Look, all officials did their first game once upon a time, and 99% of those officials would look at the tape of that game, if they could, and laugh. An official improves leaps and bounds over their first season, as long as they're willing to put in the work and learn.

Quite honestly, it can be just as frustrating for us to work with a newbie. We almost end up covering the whole game by ourselves. I've been lucky in my experience that every time I've worked with a new guy, he/she has been willing and eager. That's not always the case.

Speaking from our side of the coin, once you realize he's new, throw him a softball question perhaps. Something that you already know the answer to. It will help in his development. He's going to miss calls, that's just part of the on the job training that happens with basketball officials. Hopefully, the next time you see him, he's much, much better.

[Adam]

Tips for working with new officials.

1. It's even more important to pick your battles, and realize if the other coach has him flustered, it may come out on you if you get too close to the line.
2. Realize he's going to miss calls, but he's going to miss them both ways.

That reminds me, don't ask us to "call it both ways." We already are.