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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 08:12am
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Shot Clock Reset

NFHS game. Ball is released by Team A just before the shot clock expires. My partner as trail blows a shot clock violation just as the ball hits the rim and the horn goes off (he said he didn't see it hit the rim). I clearly see the ball hit the rim as does team A's coach on that side of the court. I blow it dead and reset the clock and give the ball to the team I thought had the ball (Team B) when the horn blew. Did we administer this correctly and would it have been different if Team A had the ball or if no one had control etc.?
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 08:25am
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The whistle blew while there was no team control and the try was unsuccessful, so you should have gone to the AP arrow.


Side note: What rule set? There are no shot clock rules in the NFHS rule book. In this case it doesn't matter, but in other scenarios the answer could depend on what rule set has been adopted for the shot clock by a particular state.
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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Jan 08, 2020 at 08:28am.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 08:28am
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I'm a little confused on the timing of the horn / whistle / possession, but if one team had the ball when the ball became dead, then that team keeps the ball. If neither team had the ball, then go to the arrow.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 08:42am
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from your timeline this should have been an AP throw in. A good lesson in patient whistles when dealing with a SC.

Raymond (I inadvertently responded to the wrong person), for the record, California and NY have SC's.
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Last edited by deecee; Wed Jan 08, 2020 at 09:34am.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post

Bob, for the record, California and NY have SC's.
He knows. About seven other states use a shot clock as well.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 09:34am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
He knows. About seven other states use a shot clock as well.
I fixed the response, it was for raymond.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 09:54am
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I fixed the response, it was for raymond.
I know that. What is not stated is and what my side note was about is the rule set being used for the shot clock. Do those 7-9 states all use the same rules in regards to the shot clock?
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 10:19am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I know that. What is not stated is and what my side note was about is the rule set being used for the shot clock. Do those 7-9 states all use the same rules in regards to the shot clock?
I know Cali and NY just mostly mirror NCAA. I would assume the other states do as well to keep things simple.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 10:32am
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I know Cali and NY just mostly mirror NCAA. I would assume the other states do as well to keep things simple.
Yes, for an inadvertent whistle, all shot clock states (including DC) mirror NCAA. There are some differences with regards to basic shot clock length in some states, tie-ins to other rules (closely guarded and 10-second counts), and resets on kicked balls (CA and MA reset to the full shot clock length) and fouls (all states go to the full length, unless double fouls occur), but for most situations, shot clock states look to NCAA for guidance.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 10:36am
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Yes, for an inadvertent whistle, all shot clock states (including DC) mirror NCAA. There are some differences with regards to basic shot clock length in some states, tie-ins to other rules (closely guarded and 10-second counts), and resets on kicked balls (CA and MA reset to the full shot clock length) and fouls (all states go to the full length, unless double fouls occur), but for most situations, shot clock states look to NCAA for guidance.
NCAA-Men's or NCAA-Women's? Boys use Men's and Girls use Women's?

This conversation right here is why I'm glad VA doesn't have a shot clock.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 12:11pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Yes, for an inadvertent whistle, all shot clock states (including DC) mirror NCAA....
You know this? How?

It is probably true, but have you really investigated each state and how they run the shot clocks?
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
It is probably true, but have you really investigated each state and how they run the shot clocks?
ilyazhito knows the guaranteed playing time rules for the East Oshkosh girls third grade recreation league. It's true. It's true.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 02:07pm
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Raymond, most states imported their shot clock rules for boys games from NCAA men's rules, and for girls games from NCAA women's rules. That is why I did not specify a gender when I mentioned NCAA rules. This is why most shot clock states still have no 10-second count for girls, even though NCAA women's basketball added the 10-second rule before the 2013-14 season. South Dakota used the old men's college (pre- 2015) shot clock rules for both boys and girls play. MD and ND originally had 35 second shot clocks for boys, with 30-second shot clocks for girls, but moved the boys teams to a 30-second shot clock for consistency between the genders.

The shot clock rules are based on OLD NCAA rules (1994 for boys, 1970 for girls), not on the current NCAA rules, so that is why we see full reset on kicked balls as well as on defensive fouls for some states. DC, however, uses the 2015-16 men's college shot clock rules as the basis for their rules.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Wed Jan 08, 2020 at 03:49pm.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 02:08pm
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Camron, I looked up the shot clock rules for each state. I even wrote a book on the differences in basketball rules, mechanics, and procedures across the different levels of basketball.
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2020, 03:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Camron, I looked up the shot clock rules for each state. I even wrote a book on the differences in basketball rules, mechanics, and procedures across the different levels of basketball.
I work several games each season in CA and can tell you with certainty that the shot clock rules are based upon old NCAA rules which are vastly different from what the NCAA now uses. CIF still has 35 seconds for boys and 30 for girls with full resets on offensive rebounds, kicked balls, and defensive fouls. With the exception of the length there are no differences in the play rulings for the boys and girls.
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