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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 15, 2019, 11:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Do we stop the clock with an open hand and then follow it up with the old held ball signal, or is the held ball signal completely gone?

If it's gone, how will the table crew know that it's a held ball and be ready to change the arrow? In the past, with the held ball signal, some table crews have occasionally missed it.
Is this a serious question?

Quote:
The final change approved by the Basketball Rules Committee is a change in the signal when a held ball occurs. Now, when a held ball occurs, the covering official(s) shall stop the clock using Signal #2 (straight arm, open palm extended) while simultaneously sounding the whistle.
You know what Signal #2 is, don't you?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 07:17am
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I Am Serious, And Don’t Call Me Shirley …

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Is this a serious question?
Yes it was. The press release is slightly unclear as to whether the held ball signal has been replaced, or whether an additional signal (the straight arm, open palm stop the clock signal) has been added to the held ball signal sequence.

I hope (and now believe) it's the later, not the former. Just like the other signals we give after giving the stop the clock signal (travel, three seconds, etc.)

... a change in the signal when a held ball occurs. Now, when a held ball occurs, the covering official(s) shall stop the clock using Signal #2 (straight arm, open palm extended) while simultaneously sounding the whistle. “This change should help to alleviate conflicting calls by officials when a held ball occurs,” Wynns said. “We currently raise one arm to stop the clock for everything except the jump/held ball.”
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 16, 2019 at 08:06am.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 08:09am
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So you are telling us that you have all this inside information that you claim to access to and this is confusing you?

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 08:46am
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Stop The Clock ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
So you are telling us that you have all this inside information that you claim to access to and this is confusing you?
I have never claimed to have any inside information about NFHS mechanics and signals. Here in Connecticut, we use IAABO mechanics and signals.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1032617

As I quickly perused the press release for the first time, I carelessly and incorrectly interpreted the word "change" to mean replace, as in "presto chango". After further consideration, I decided that "change" actually meant an addition to the held ball signal, like many other signal sequences that begin with a stop the clock signal.

Also, no more inside information for me. My local interpreter, who had also served as a Connecticut state interpreter, and who had held high level training positions on IAABO International, including having access to NFHS rule change procedures, and committees, recently retired.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1032618

Whenever my neighbor, Frank, gets a home project done, he always gets it done inexpensively because he always "knows a guy".

In regard to my access to inside information, I no longer "know a guy".
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 16, 2019 at 09:47am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 09:10am
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Deja Vu All over again.

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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The way we've been interpreting this (for more than just several years) is exactly as Ms. Wynns noted, that hair control devices go around the hair only, while headbands go around the entire head.

If it's prewrap around the entire head, it's a headband and is under color restrictions.

If it's prewrap only around some hair (pony tail holder), it's a hair control device, and is not under any color restrictions.
(Its like bad trip/ flash back)

Right...

So if player x has their hair in a bun. One or two hair restraint devices around the top knot to keep it secure.

Then takes a roll of pro wrap. Wraps a piece around their head and ties it off then rolls it up into and through their hairline to trap bangs, fly away hair from lower in bun (beacuse layering is thing). Is that a head band they've pushed up into their hair or a hair control device holding some of the hair their other hair control device doesn't that happens to go around their head?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 09:25am
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Was Carly Simon Singing About Him ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
So if player has their hair in a bun. One or two hair restraint devices around the top knot to keep it secure. Then takes a roll of pre wrap. Wraps a piece around their head and ties it off then rolls it up into and through their hairline to trap bangs, fly away hair from lower in bun (because layering is thing). Is that a head band they've pushed up into their hair or a hair control device holding some of the hair their other hair control device doesn't that happens to go around their head?
Way above my pay grade.

Ask Warren Beatty (Young'uns can check out "Warren Beatty Shampoo" on the Google, or Carly Simon You're So Vain" on the You Tube).

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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 16, 2019 at 09:49am.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 09:54am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Billy, please set yourself some posting limit per day.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:03am
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When In Rome ...

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Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Billy, please set yourself some posting limit per day.
I could have replied to Pantherdreams seriously, or facetiously.

I guess that I chose poorly (apologies to the Grail Knight).

Fashion issues are often decided on the local and/or state level.

What Ms. Wynns says about headbands and hair control devices (hair-control device goes around the hair only, while a headband goes around the entire head) may, or may not, mean anything on the local and/or state level.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 16, 2019 at 10:11am.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:17am
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This is stupid. The NFHS Rules Committee just wastes its time with hair control devices and uniforms, yet is not willing to implement any rules changes that might actually affect gameplay. It's a pity that they don't have anything at the high school level where experimental rules can be implemented, like the NIT. If there was, they could playtest the restricted area, shot clock, and other proposed rules changes before having the committee vote on them. That way, the committee would actually have an idea of what they are voting on, and why they want to vote for or against, not just MUH NOSTALGIA, or Ain't spending nothing.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
This is stupid. The NFHS Rules Committee just wastes its time with hair control devices and uniforms, yet is not willing to implement any rules changes that might actually affect gameplay. It's a pity that they don't have anything at the high school level where experimental rules can be implemented, like the NIT. If there was, they could playtest the restricted area, shot clock, and other proposed rules changes before having the committee vote on them. That way, the committee would actually have an idea of what they are voting on, and why they want to vote for or against, not just MUH NOSTALGIA, or Ain't spending nothing.


It's not broke, so why fix it?

Shot clocks and restricted areas for HS are gimmicks, nothing more.


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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:27am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It's not broke, so why fix it?

Shot clocks and restricted areas for HS are gimmicks, nothing more.


Agree. Worked with a shot clock in RI this year, probably about 45 games’ worth. I think I had three shot clock violations all season. Seriously, it’s the dumbest thing for HS basketball. The kids just want to shoot their threes and drive to the basket.


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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
This is stupid. The NFHS Rules Committee just wastes its time with hair control devices and uniforms, yet is not willing to implement any rules changes that might actually affect gameplay. It's a pity that they don't have anything at the high school level where experimental rules can be implemented, like the NIT. If there was, they could playtest the restricted area, shot clock, and other proposed rules changes before having the committee vote on them. That way, the committee would actually have an idea of what they are voting on, and why they want to vote for or against, not just MUH NOSTALGIA, or Ain't spending nothing.
I will concede that FED spends far too much time debating and implementing fashion police stuff rather than sensible changes to gameplay that most people would be on board with.

But I have yet to see a fact-based argument for shot clock/RA in high school other than "the higher levels do it." Sorry, but it's going to take a lot more than that.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 10:56am
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Damn The Torpedoes ...

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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I will concede that FED spends far too much time debating and implementing fashion police stuff ...
As long as the direction of the NFHS continues to be toward simplification, modernization, and ease of enforcement (rolled shorts allowed, headbands like those allowed in volleyball, any color for hair control devices) of fashion issues, then I say, "Full speed ahead".

Or, as I screamed to my brother-in-law as he was driving me to the hospital emergency room on an early Sunday morning for one of my kidney stone attacks, "Go through the red lights. Faster. Faster. Faster".
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu May 16, 2019 at 11:07am.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 11:26am
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Minnesota used the restricted arc this year. A safety rule per the MSHSL. It is sometimes difficult to administer with two officials but for the most part it wasn't a terrible change. We certainly had way less of the secondary defenders sliding in for a cheap charge call.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 16, 2019, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re View Post
Minnesota used the restricted arc this year. A safety rule per the MSHSL. It is sometimes difficult to administer with two officials but for the most part it wasn't a terrible change. We certainly had way less of the secondary defenders sliding in for a cheap charge call.


Why is that cheap? If a player can establish LGP, then maybe the offensive player should not be taking it to tbe rack.


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