Advanced Question ...
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Does the hand have to be in contact with the ball for the backcourt violation to be called? What if the foot in on the division line while the ball is mid-dribble (not being touched by the ball handler at that second), and then the foot comes off the division line back into the frontcourt when the dribbler next touches the ball? 9-3-1-Note: A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds. The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds. The citation above twice mentions out of bounds. Boundary is mentioned once. The division line is a boundary line, but it's not out of bounds. The citation is 9-3-1-Note. 9-3 deals with Out Of Bounds. 9-9 deals with Backcourt. I never check for the hand in contact with the ball when a dribbler touches the division line with his foot in this situation, I just sound my whistle for the backcourt violation and move on. Is that technically and/or literally correct? Or is it only correct by purpose and intent? Or is it incorrect? |
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Does Anyone Refer To Grasshopper Any More ???
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https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.S...=0&w=238&h=172 |
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How many fans and inexperienced officials would think they have to explicitly state the ball returned to the player's hand? |
The Untouchables ...
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Not sure about the relevance of either of these questions, but bottom line, the ball does have to return to the hand, both on a written test, and in a real game, for this to be a violation. Any official that calls this violation when the ball first touches the backcourt, without waiting for the next offensive touch, could be open for a little criticism, maybe not from most fans, or from inexperienced officials, but from experienced officials observing, or a few knowledgeable fans, or perhaps even a few knowledgeable coaches, especially if the ball takes an odd bounce and bounces a few feet away from the dribbler, untouched, into the backcourt. Even little kids seem to know the rule. If one officiates little kids long enough, eventually one will observe a little kid, who in this situation, knows that they can't be the first to touch the ball, so they follow the ball closely, with both hands ready to grab the ball after an opponent barely touches it. This, of course, never works. The dribbler either grabs the ball first, or the opponent grabs the ball first. I've been playing, coaching, officiating, and observing basketball games for fifty-five years and I've never observed this "play" work. Never. Ever. But it's always fun watching little kids try it. And, maybe, someday I'll see it work. There can always be a first time. https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.S...=0&w=242&h=162 I've observed high school players, in this situation, avoid a backcourt violation by following the ball, but not touching it, oddly choosing an out of bounds violation instead of a backcourt violation, sometimes leading to an oddly advantageous throwin for the opponents. Quote:
While I may be at fault for not reading something into the original post that's definitely not there, one can also be faulted for reading something into the original post that's definitely not there. My takeaway point throughout this thread: The ball has to return to the hand, both on a written test, and in a real game, for this to be a violation, and I believe, especially for young'uns, that this is a valid point to make in situations like this. |
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That's what normal people do. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
No Ifs, Ands, Or Buts ...
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Are you saying that me stating that he ball has to return to the hand for this to be a violation is not a valid point to make in situations (written test, or real life game) like this? |
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Anything to keep your word and post count up. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
Horton Hears A Who ...
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Note: Original question could have been presented better, with ODog's and JRutledge's questions regarding frontcourt status, and my question about a second offensive touch. Again, Quote:
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Talk Amongst Yourselves (Coffee Talk) ...
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Peace |
I'm A Cheap Bastard ...
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I Miss Mark Padgett ...
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He always told me that he was the Official Forum treasurer and that I must send him my annual Official Forum dues, in small, unmarked, non-sequential serial numbers, US currency. And would always give me the Esteemed Forum Member annual dues discount. Who's the Official Forum treasurer now? Do I still get my Esteemed Forum Member annual dues discount? Must Official Forum annual dues still be paid in small, unmarked, non-sequential serial numbers, US currency? Or can I just provide my checking account routing number and account number? I miss Mark Padgett. When he wasn't joking around, which was almost all the time, he had a lot to add to Forum discussions regarding basketball officiating, especially recreation level basketball. I also loved his "hard nosed, blue collar, south side of Chicago" philosophy. Even though he lived in Oregon, and was a pot smoking, tree hugging, pig heart transplanted, Jewish hippie, he was always, first, a proud Chicagoan. And, of course, he was our resident Law and Order expert. https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.L...=0&w=292&h=164 |
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You quoted it as "the ball touches the floor on the dribble in the backcourt." "On the dribble" is the key phrase for me. If it did not return to the hand, then it would not be a dribble. To me that sounds far more logical than your point. Love you BM. |
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