Final Four: Virginia v Auburn

[deecee]

Just saw both plays. Don't know what I would do but the dribbling violation seemed like a fairly obvious dribble-fumble-dribble. But I knew what I was looking for and it was slo mo.

The foul on the 3 point shot was very correct. It's only controversial to Auburn fans.

[Rich]

In a perfect world, the C grabs this foul.

[Zoochy]

What is the time on the clock on this play?
Where is the ball put back into play?

[bucky]

Not a jersey grab IMO. A jersey swipe? Yes, but not a grab. Plus, had nothing to do with the play, merely incidental. If a foul is called there, the whole world would be questioning it. IOW, the lesser of two evils prevailed, as it should have.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

In a perfect world, the C grabs this foul.

I didn't think this was a foul. It was for a fraction of a second and didn't impact anything.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

In a perfect world, the C grabs this foul.

Yep, that's what I've been saying. The contact before he picks up the dribble could have been called as a take-foul.

And yes, I have called fouls from the Center in pressing situations when Trail is straight-lined. I mentor a kid who is still in college and we've had several conversations about the Center official helping out with contact in the back court.

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[thedewed]

You've got 2 guys looking at that backcourt double dribble, 2 angles, dual controls because you can afford it in that instance, part of the reason we have 3 officials. No excuse that neither get that obvious call. And thank goodness the lead in the last shot stepped up, because Sirmons, the trail there (primary?) and the C here (secondary but also critical dual control) wilted in the last few seconds of that game. Had the L not stepped up on the last play, it would have been the worst last few seconds in the history of a FF game.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich

In a perfect world, the C grabs this foul.

The thing with still pictures is the loss of perspective. From this still picture, yes this is a foul that the C should have called. The C, nor any other official, has the ability to stop frame a scene and see exactly what happened. It is very possible that 1 or 2 "frames" either way and there is not enough contact to make a call. The thing will humans is we see a lot, but we also miss a lot due to the speed of the game vs the speed of human vision.

Then there is the entire angle issue. Obviously the C has a different view of this than the camera does, and from the C's position it may even be less contact than what is witnessed in this single frame of time.

The missed DD is a bigger issue. The foul call on the 3 attempt was absolutely, 100% the correct call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

Just saw both plays. Don't know what I would do but the dribbling violation seemed like a fairly obvious dribble-fumble-dribble. But I knew what I was looking for and it was slo mo.

The foul on the 3 point shot was very correct. It's only controversial to Auburn fans.

I too just saw them.

The illegal dribble was pretty obvious. Tough one for two of them to miss. At least one had a perfectly clear look.

The foul wouldn't have been called 10 years ago. It gets called now. It was a foul.

With the time remaining in the game at the time of the missed illegal dribble, it likely had a direct impact on the outcome. Not the first game this year where a last second missed violation likely changed the outcome.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I too just saw them.

The illegal dribble was pretty obvious. Tough one for two of them to miss. At least one had a perfectly clear look.

The foul wouldn't have been called 10 years ago. It gets called now. It was a foul.

With the time remaining in the game at the time of the missed illegal dribble, it likely had a direct impact on the outcome. Not the first game this year where a last second missed violation likely changed the outcome.

How about the missed take foul after the fumble but before the double dribble?

I mean, if we're playing "what was missed" then everything should be on the table.


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[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

How about the missed take foul after the fumble but before the double dribble?

I mean, if we're playing "what was missed" then everything should be on the table.


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Your one frame shot doesn't prove it was a foul. It shows contact that in it's context doesn't rise to the level of a foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

Your one frame shot doesn't prove it was a foul. It shows contact that in it's context doesn't rise to the level of a foul.

I don't have the video, but it's a grab and it's in the context of a take foul, which normally has a much lower threshold for a whistle.

Not saying it IS a foul, but all those saying the missed double is the only thing here, it's just not.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't have the video, but it's a grab and it's in the context of a take foul, which normally has a much lower threshold for a whistle.

Not saying it IS a foul, but all those saying the missed double is the only thing here, it's just not.

I agree with you, but this is also why I do not like still pictures as ways to determine if a foul or a violation took place on its own. Because even if the jersey is being pulled, that does not mean the player was restricted. I think the play in question was more about his finger getting caught into the jersey, but nothing restricted. Also, there is a point of the game too where any little contact can be considered a foul as Auburn had fouls to give and near the end of the game. Great discussion, but also can be deceiving as well if we use a picture to say something was missed, but I get your overall point too.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree with you, but this is also why I do not like still pictures as ways to determine if a foul or a violation took place on its own. Because even if the jersey is being pulled, that does not mean the player was restricted. I think the play in question was more about his finger getting caught into the jersey, but nothing restricted. Also, there is a point of the game too where any little contact can be considered a foul as Auburn had fouls to give and near the end of the game. Great discussion, but also can be deceiving as well if we use a picture to say something was missed, but I get your overall point too.

Peace

I'm not even saying this was missed, but nobody's talking about this as if it doesn't happen. In context, since it's part of the sequence that included the double dribble, we should be at least considering it.