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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 06:52pm
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Semi final/final system of Beijing

Hey Iīm Mikko from Finland.
Unfortunately I havenīt seen many baseball/softball matches in my life. Only couple of Athens 2004 matches.

Anyway I remember that I wonder in 2004 why that softballīs semi final/final system is so bizarre? Today I noticed that semi final/final system will be as bizarre again in Beijing. Why couldnīt they play "normal" semi finals, bronze medal match and final? Could someone tell me an answer please?
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Old Tue Jun 17, 2008, 11:29pm
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Please elaborate. What is it that you find so bizarre?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 03:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi
Please elaborate. What is it that you find so bizarre?
"Page playoff system"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_playoff_system

The winner and runner up of the round robin play against. Winner of that match go to final and loser go to "bronze medal match".
Third and fourth of the round robin play against. Winner go to "bronze medal match".
Loser of that "bronze medal match" get bronze medals and winner go to final.
In my opinion this system is bizarre.

Beijingīs schedule is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softbal...ummer_Olympics
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 05:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirvi
"Page playoff system"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_playoff_system

The winner and runner up of the round robin play against. Winner of that match go to final and loser go to "bronze medal match".
Third and fourth of the round robin play against. Winner go to "bronze medal match".
Loser of that "bronze medal match" get bronze medals and winner go to final.
In my opinion this system is bizarre.

Beijingīs schedule is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softbal...ummer_Olympics
the first problem is wikkipedia... if you want you can go in and change that system...(wikkipedia is editable by anyone)
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 06:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu
the first problem is wikkipedia... if you want you can go in and change that system...(wikkipedia is editable by anyone)
Whatever. Wikipedia or appreciated newspaper you always have to think yourself if information is true or not.
This page is from official Beijing site.
http://en.beijing2008.cn/news/sports...14407542.shtml
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 07:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirvi
"Page playoff system"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_playoff_system

The winner and runner up of the round robin play against. Winner of that match go to final and loser go to "bronze medal match".
Third and fourth of the round robin play against. Winner go to "bronze medal match".
Loser of that "bronze medal match" get bronze medals and winner go to final.
In my opinion this system is bizarre.

Beijingīs schedule is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softbal...ummer_Olympics
Don't see anything bizarre. Eight teams play round-robin qualifier to four.

The format they are using has a give and take for the top seed which prevails in the first playoff game. The plus is if you win, you only have one more game to play. The minus is if you win, a loss takes the gold away.
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 08:11am
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If, in fact, that is the format, it is a bit screwy. The top four teams from the round robin qualify for the medal round, but they seed the first games of the round as #1 v #2 and #3 v #4, so right off the bat, the seeding is unusual.

Second, the loser of the game between #1 and #2 will be higher seeded out of the preliminaries than the winner of the match between #3 and #4 - guaranteed. So the loser of that game gets screwed - they get the bronze and the #3 or #4 team gets to play for the gold.

It is likely with this system that the silver medal winner will have a worse overall record in the round robin and the same record in the medal round as the bronze.

I'd say that qualifies as bizarre.

Jeez... I had to edit this message 3 times to get this right; and I'm still not sure I have.

Why not a conventionally seeded 1 v 4 and 2 v 3, winners playing for gold, losers playing for bronze?
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Last edited by Dakota; Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 08:30am.
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 11:09am
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This format avoids the "if" game. I agree, it is not the norm, but it is the way of the IOC.

The top two seeds play to determine a reseeded #1.

The bottom two play for a medal and reseed at #3. You now have your medal teams. The bottom two play for the right to go for the gold. The loser gets the bronze.

Now it is one game for all the marbles.
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 05:07pm
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Okee, especially for Mikka:
If you find this system odd, what do you think about Euro2008?
There are 4 groups, numbers 1 and 2 go to quarter final:
A1 vs B2 (Q1), B1 vs A2 (Q2), C1 vs D2 (Q3) and D1 vs C2 (Q4). Just as normal as ever... Semi-finals: winner Q1 vs winner Q2 (S1) and winner Q3 vs winner Q4 (S2). Now this is odd, 'cause you'll face a team from pool C or D, as a team from A or B-pool only in the final!

The Irishmobster wrote it, it's the way of the IOC. I don't agree with him completely: In my opinion it's the way of ISF...
But that can be considdered as the same!

Mikka, if you want to see some more softball: the European Championships Men FP will be held in Copenhagen (28Jul. - 2 Aug).
For more European tournaments see:
http://www.europeansoftball.org/node/103
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 06:15pm
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According to the wikipedia site, each of the 8 teams will play each of the other 7 teams once in the qualifying round.

What jumped out at me was the fact the each team will be playing 7 games in 7 days. The following day is a day off for all teams with the 2 semifinal games will be played one day later.
I guess that's not a huge deal although I assumed there would be more than 1 day off somewhere.
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 06:22pm
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Hey Olex!

I think uefa wants that final teams wouldnīt have played each other before like four years ago.

And yes international softball federation has decided that format not IOC. Itīs also an interesting thing that one finalist has played one play off match before final but another finalist has played two play off matches before final. Good part of this format is that the bronze medal match wonīt be a match between two disappointed teams.

And thanks Alex for that link. I donīt have time travel to Copenhagen but I hope that I could watch some Olympic matches again.
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Old Wed Jun 18, 2008, 06:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYBLUE
According to the wikipedia site, each of the 8 teams will play each of the other 7 teams once in the qualifying round.

What jumped out at me was the fact the each team will be playing 7 games in 7 days. The following day is a day off for all teams with the 2 semifinal games will be played one day later.
I guess that's not a huge deal although I assumed there would be more than 1 day off somewhere.
Huh? One game a day and you expect them to have more than a day's rest? Hell, for these ladies, that will be a piece of cake. The lack of activity may actually bother some players.
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Old Thu Jun 19, 2008, 05:03pm
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It's also the way for television. This way they know exactly how many games there will be, and when they will be played.
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Old Fri Jun 20, 2008, 08:08am
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Not exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Second, the loser of the game between #1 and #2 will be higher seeded out of the preliminaries than the winner of the match between #3 and #4 - guaranteed. So the loser of that game gets screwed - they get the bronze and the #3 or #4 team gets to play for the gold.
The winner of #3 vs #4 gets to play for the gold only if they defeat the loser of #1 vs #2. Assuming #2 loses in Semi-Final #1 and that #3 wins in Semi-Final #2. Then #2 will play #3 to see who gets the bronze. The loser gets the bronze and the winner goes on to play for the Gold and is guaranteed nothing less than a silver medal. If #2 wins, they play #1 again for the Gold. Winner of the Gold Medal game gets the gold. The only way for #3 or #4 to play for the gold is if they defeat the loser of Semi-Final #1.
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Old Fri Jun 20, 2008, 08:28am
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Well, THAT's simple! Why didn't I see that?

The wiki link posted was exactly clear, and as I said, I edited the message several times and STILL did not get it right!

Oh, well...

Suppose #1 is undefeated, and #2 has one loss to #1 in the round robin. #1 wins the semi, and #2 wins the bronze game AND subsequently the gold game. #2 gets the gold medal with a 1-2 record head-to-head against the silver medalist. No, it's not bizarre at all...

At least make it a 3 game series for the gold, like the colleges do. I'd bet that we generate MORE interest, not less (listening, TV folk?).

Since softball games are rarely the prime-time games anyway, and will be on tape delay except possibly for the terminally sleep-deprived (in NA, anyway), TV should have no problem with a series format.

But, then, since there is no olympic softball after this year anyway, what difference does it make?
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