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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 12:49pm
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Pregame festivities

Invariably during the pregame an official will say such things as:

1. "this is an extension of the classroom, so we expect....[blah blah blah]". I never say such a thing as this because the athletic competition is nothing like a classroom where the expectations are different.

2. "who are the speaking captains for your team?". I never say this, I always refer to them as "team representatives". For the simple reason that, I don't know what a "speaking captain" is, and I will never remember the number of said individual player. Also, does the "speaking captain" [if you can remember the jersey numbers of them] have any rights that are above that of the regular players? During a game I will address any player's question--regardless of their status.

3. a coach looking off into space during the pregame conference and/or nodding their heads in a manner to suggest "let's just get on with this game ok".

**One thing I have done/said in pregame is: "don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game". I do this because players and coaches know they can "get away with one infraction" and the Rule for allowing one instance is so abused. I did admin a T during the season and neither coach nor player complained, not even a murmur---all though I did hear a fan yell--don't they get a warning?!

Last edited by Kansas Ref; Tue Feb 05, 2019 at 01:07pm.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 01:28pm
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Short And Sweet ...

Here's mine:

Players legally equipped.
Players wearing uniforms properly.
Practice good sportsmanship.

New IAABO (for IAABO members only) mechanics (but the NFHS rule hasn't changed) have pretty much done away with the need for a "speaking captain" (unless one gets a rare request for a "lineup").

Jump Ball. The Referee or tossing official checks for readiness with table and partner (no longer checks for readiness with the captains).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 05, 2019 at 01:32pm.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 01:29pm
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My pre-game:

1. Are your players properly and legally equipped?

2. **

3. Do you have any questions for me or the crew?

4. Good luck to both of you.

**I reserve this spot for a statement related to any type of NFHS and/or local emphasis i.e. coaching box, uniform requirements (which is somewhat redundant given statement 1, etc. I may or may not choose to add one of those...just depends.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 01:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
...**One thing I have done/said in pregame is: "don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game". I do this because players and coaches know they can "get away with one infraction" and the Rule for allowing one instance is so abused. I did admin a T during the season and neither coach nor player complained, not even a murmur---all though I did hear a fan yell--don't they get a warning?!
NFHS rules require a delay warning to be recorded in the scorebook and for the head coach to be notified.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 01:30pm
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Toto, I Have A Feeling We’re Not In Kansas Anymore ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
... don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game ...
Kansas rules?
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 01:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Invariably during the pregame an official will say such things as:

1. "this is an extension of the classroom, so we expect....[blah blah blah]". I never say such a thing as this because the athletic competition is nothing like a classroom where the expectations are different.

2. "who are the speaking captains for your team?". I never say this, I always refer to them as "team representatives". For the simple reason that, I don't know what a "speaking captain" is, and I will never remember the number of said individual player. Also, does the "speaking captain" [if you can remember the jersey numbers of them] have any rights that are above that of the regular players? During a game I will address any player's question--regardless of their status.

3. a coach looking off into space during the pregame conference and/or nodding their heads in a manner to suggest "let's just get on with this game ok".

**One thing I have done/said in pregame is: "don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game". I do this because players and coaches know they can "get away with one infraction" and the Rule for allowing one instance is so abused. I did admin a T during the season and neither coach nor player complained, not even a murmur---all though I did hear a fan yell--don't they get a warning?!
1) I've now starting introducing the crew (first names in college/Mr. Lastname for HS) and tell the players to approach us just as they would a teacher/professor.

2) I ask for numbers just out of ceremony of acknowledging the speaking captains. Not doing so would make me stick out from every other referee I work with, both college and HS.

3) With coaches, I shake hands and give them my first name. No other conversation except maybe a reminder about the coaching box if I have coach who's a known wanderer.

**Your pregame warning is no less extraneous than any other statements you consider as "blah, blah, blah" by other officials, plus is against the rules concerning DOG warnings. Plus the message is not going to get to the other players. You get a coach who knows the rules and you will have a problem that will not be defensible to your assignor/supervisor/state association.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 03:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
lso, does the "speaking captain" [if you can remember the jersey numbers of them] have any rights that are above that of the regular players?
No. But, it is the player to whom I will go first if I need to address something about another player.

And, in my experience, if you use the captain's first name, then every other player thinks you know all the first names, and the behavior improves when they think you know them as a person and not just as a uniform number.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
1) I've now starting introducing the crew (first names in college/Mr. Lastname for HS) and tell the players to approach us just as they would a teacher/professor.

2) I ask for numbers just out of ceremony of acknowledging the speaking captains. Not doing so would make me stick out from every other referee I work with, both college and HS.

3) With coaches, I shake hands and give them my first name. No other conversation except maybe a reminder about the coaching box if I have coach who's a known wanderer.

**Your pregame warning is no less extraneous than any other statements you consider as "blah, blah, blah" by other officials, plus is against the rules concerning DOG warnings. Plus the message is not going to get to the other players. You get a coach who knows the rules and you will have a problem that will not be defensible to your assignor/supervisor/state association.
You'd fit in fine down here where I'm at if you don't ask for speaking captains...that's pretty much my pregame. Only the 30+ year vets and their sycophants still do so.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 04:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
No. But, it is the player to whom I will go first if I need to address something about another player.

And, in my experience, if you use the captain's first name, then every other player thinks you know all the first names, and the behavior improves when they think you know them as a person and not just as a uniform number.
My last college crew chief game I asked for the captains names (each team only sent 1 player). I also use either the coach's name or the team's name when doing my 1st horn notifications. (1st horn Lakers; 1st horn Luke)

And if I know a player's name I will use it in communications with not only that player, but his teammates and coaches. "That's 5 fouls on TJ"; "Hey, can you ask Paul to tuck his shirt for me please?"
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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Feb 06, 2019 at 08:17am.
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 04:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Also, does the "speaking captain" [if you can remember the jersey numbers of them] have any rights that are above that of the regular players? During a game I will address any player's question--regardless of their status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
No. But, it is the player to whom I will go first if I need to address something about another player.
The captain can request a defensive matchup if there are 3 or more substitutes. Never seen this used until this year when we had the HC coach tell us before the game that his captains would be requesting a matchup (the team he was playing was known to roll 5 subs every few minutes). In addition to the speaking captain, we allowed the other 2 players who joined the pregame conference to request a matchup when the speaking captain was on the bench.

Last edited by HokiePaul; Tue Feb 05, 2019 at 04:58pm. Reason: corrected from "more than 3" to "3 or more"
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Old Tue Feb 05, 2019, 10:24pm
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thanks so much for the insights.
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Old Wed Feb 06, 2019, 01:01am
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1: Are your players legally equipped?
-It's here I'll address any uniform issues I wasn't able to get beforehand or just spotted.

2: This may be just Illinois, but we're required now to ask if there's a trainer on site, and if the visiting team hasn't brought their own trainer (they never do), if they're ok with the home trainer treating an injured visiting player (uh DUH!!)

3: Coaches please let us know full or 30 on timeouts and have them ready to play by the second horn

4: Players...good sportsmanship and please help us get the ball if it rolls away

5: Have fun, good luck.

It took me about 6 times as long to type that as it does to say all of it. I don't ask for speaking captains because I won't remember who they are ten seconds after they've left the huddle.
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Old Wed Feb 06, 2019, 01:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
**One thing I have done/said in pregame is: "don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game". I do this because players and coaches know they can "get away with one infraction" and the Rule for allowing one instance is so abused. I did admin a T during the season and neither coach nor player complained, not even a murmur---all though I did hear a fan yell--don't they get a warning?!
By rule, the team gets one warning for an action such as this. Skipping that with a statement during the pregame is incorrect and overstepping your role as a game official. Just because you don’t like the way that the delay warnings work doesn’t mean that you get to eliminate them from the game.
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Old Wed Feb 06, 2019, 09:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
The captain can request a defensive matchup if there are 3 or more substitutes. Never seen this used until this year when we had the HC coach tell us before the game that his captains would be requesting a matchup (the team he was playing was known to roll 5 subs every few minutes). In addition to the speaking captain, we allowed the other 2 players who joined the pregame conference to request a matchup when the speaking captain was on the bench.
Let's say that Team A has 2 players designated "captains." If they happen to both be on the bench, does that team forfeit its right to request a defensive matchup? I think if placed in this situation (and I think I've only had a defensive matchup request once or twice ever), I would honor a request from anyone.

3-1-1: Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain.

That leads me to believe that regardless of a captains meeting, and who attends/doesn't attend, or is designated/not designated, one player on the floor must be considered the captain. (If there are multiple, then the speaking captain serves as captain during that time).
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Old Wed Feb 06, 2019, 09:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
**One thing I have done/said in pregame is: "don't interfere or toss the ball to me after it has gone thru the net, this is delay of game, and this pregame warning serves as your official warning, it's a T if done in the game". I do this because players and coaches know they can "get away with one infraction" and the Rule for allowing one instance is so abused. I did admin a T during the season and neither coach nor player complained, not even a murmur---all though I did hear a fan yell--don't they get a warning?!
Sorry, but you were wrong and the fan was right. You ignored the rule and overstepped your bounds. If I was your partner I would have come to you to rescind the T, and if you stuck with it I'd call the assigner and not defend you to the coach, either. You can't give a pregame warning for delay.

As for my pregame dog-and-pony show, it lasts 15 seconds max (we do one meeting here with captains and coaches together). I'm one of very few officials in my area that doesn't ask who the "speaking captain" is, and I couldn't care less. The only thing I say to the coaches other than "have a good game" is the stupid "properly equipped" question because it's required by rule.

Officials that think they're impressive because they recite the entire rule book in their pregame meetings are generally miserable to work with and get a few eye-rolls from the coaches, as well.
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