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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 03:41pm
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Another backcourt

White has the ball in their front court. W1 throws an errant pass to W2. The ball sails past W2 for the corner where the division line and the side line meet. Before the ball goes out of bounds or into the back court, W2 saves it behind her back. The ball hits on the division line with English, bounces on the division line, then bounces back into the front court where W1 recovers the ball. No other player touched it. Ruling?
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 03:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
White has the ball in their front court. W1 throws an errant pass to W2. The ball sails past W2 for the corner where the division line and the side line meet. Before the ball goes out of bounds or into the back court, W2 saves it behind her back. The ball hits on the division line with English, bounces on the division line, then bounces back into the front court where W1 recovers the ball. No other player touched it. Ruling?
Are you ABSOLUTELY certain the ball hit the line?
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 04:24pm
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Barium ...

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.

Check. Check. Check. Check. Backcourt violation.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 05:36pm
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Billy is correct.

Said another way:

The ball (in team control for W, and in W's FC) returned to the BC when it bounced on the division line.

Who was the last to touch it before that bounce? W.
Who was the next to touch it after that bounce? W.


Violation.

The fact that it also bounced in the FC is irrelevant. It did return to the back and who touched it last before and next after that even is all that matters.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 06:34pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Man View Post
White has the ball in their front court. W1 throws an errant pass to W2. The ball sails past W2 for the corner where the division line and the side line meet. Before the ball goes out of bounds or into the back court, W2 saves it behind her back. The ball hits on the division line with English, bounces on the division line, then bounces back into the front court where W1 recovers the ball. No other player touched it. Ruling?
I am not calling a violation on this play. I think the intent of the rule is that the player should be in the backcourt during the touch to be a violation.

Last edited by CJP; Sun Feb 03, 2019 at 06:42pm.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 07:07pm
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Not Your Father's Backcourt Violation ...

(Apologies to Oldsmobile.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I am not calling a violation on this play.
I'm probably not calling a violation either, not because of intent and purpose, but because, on this odd bang bang play, I seriously doubt that I could check off all four elements and figure out it's a backcourt violation before it's too late to call. And I also doubt that I'll get any complaints from players, coaches, or fans.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Feb 03, 2019 at 07:16pm.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 07:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I am not calling a violation on this play. I think the intent of the rule is that the player should be in the backcourt during the touch to be a violation.
So a player could, after establishing control in the front court, dribble the ball onto the division line all day long?
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 07:20pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
So a player could, after establishing control in the front court, dribble the ball onto the division line all day long?
No. My statement was specific to the original post not to every possible backcourt situation.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 08:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I am not calling a violation on this play. I think the intent of the rule is that the player should be in the backcourt during the touch to be a violation.
The intent is that the offense play within the 42' x 50' (FED, and I'm not getting hung up on the width of the division line) rectangle that defines the front court (while also not prematurely killing the play that would give the defense an advantage).

They didn't.

Call the violation.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Sun Feb 03, 2019 at 08:07pm.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 08:38pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The intent is that the offense play within the 42' x 50' (FED, and I'm not getting hung up on the width of the division line) rectangle that defines the front court (while also not prematurely killing the play that would give the defense an advantage).

They didn't.

Call the violation.
No players left the frontcourt and the ball has frontcourt status when recovered. I am not worried about the repercussions of not calling this a violation.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 09:14pm
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Once the ball touches the backcourt after being last touched by the offense, they cant touch the ball again until its touched by the defense.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 10:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I am not calling a violation on this play. I think the intent of the rule is that the player should be in the backcourt during the touch to be a violation.


Soooooo, W1, in the FC, could throw the ball, with back spin, into the BC, so that the ball returns to the FC, where W1 could recover?

Just teasing.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
No players left the frontcourt and the ball has frontcourt status when recovered. I am not worried about the repercussions of not calling this a violation.
What about a ball that hits the sideline but the player who last touched it doesn't leave the court?
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 11:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
What about a ball that hits the sideline but the player who last touched it doesn't leave the court?
You are trying to compare an apple to an orange. Both fruit but still different.
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Old Sun Feb 03, 2019, 11:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
You are trying to compare an apple to an orange. Both fruit but still different.
But your fruit is sour.

Simply put, you're wrong to argue this shouldn't be called. There is no argument to not call it any more than not calling a ball sailing OOB where A1 attempts to save it but it bounces on the sideline in doing so. The only difference is that in the division line case, team B is allowed to recover it and play on while team A isn't.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Mon Feb 04, 2019 at 01:15am.
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