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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:03am
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What is the Remedy When Tipoff is in Wrong Direction.?

I was at two separate games this week where the officials started the Tipoff in the wrong direction and at each game about twenty seconds in they stopped the game and instructed players which way to go and continued on with the game without doing another tipoff... instead inbounding from the sidelines.

Neither game had scored any points yet, but I am really curious what happens in this situation when there are goals scored before they realize the error.

To be clear, the referee throwing the ball up for the tipoff instructed the teams to go the wrong way... in both of these games.

How is this supposed to be fixed? Should the game be restarted?
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:38am
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5.2.1 SITUATION F:

During the pregame practice period, the visiting team properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. Several baskets are scored before it is recognized that both teams are throwing the ball into the opponent's basket.

RULING: All points scored count as if the teams had gone the right direction and scored in their own basket. Once the mistake is recognized, play shall continue with each team attempting to score in its own basket. (4-5-4)
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 08:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
...

To be clear, the referee throwing the ball up for the tipoff instructed the teams to go the wrong way... in both of these games.

How is this supposed to be fixed? Should the game be restarted?
Why do you think restarting the game should be an option?
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:22am
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Roy "Wrong Way" Riegels ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
5.2.1 SITUATION F: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. Several baskets are scored before it is recognized that both teams are throwing the ball into the opponent's basket.
RULING: All points scored count as if the teams had gone the right direction and scored in their own basket. Once the mistake is recognized, play shall continue with each team attempting to score in its own basket. (4-5-4)
Same scenario, but while they warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, all the players get discombobulated and go the incorrect way for several minutes, scoring several baskets, and only then is it realized that the player's screwed up?
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Same scenario, but while they warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, all the players get discombobulated and go the incorrect way for several minutes, scoring several baskets, and only then is it realized that the player's screwed up?
It can never be just the players that screwed up. If only the players screwed up, the referees would have called a 10 second violation or a back court violation.
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 10:59am
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Several Minutes, And Several Baskets, By Both Teams ...

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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
It can never be just the players that screwed up. If only the players screwed up, the referees would have called a 10 second violation or a back court violation.
Agree. So let's say that the officials are also "fooled" and don't figure it out until several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams, into the game?

I know what I would do using common sense and fairness, but what would we do by the book?

If discovered within seconds (warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, no backcourt) with only one basket scored, I'm counting the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered.

But several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 31, 2019 at 11:55am.
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 11:30am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Why do you think restarting the game should be an option?
It is in the NBA, if less than 24 seconds have elapsed.

However, for high school (and college) basketball, all activity counts, and teams will be lined up in the correct direction, even if it means that 1 team will have an end line throw-in after a score into its proper frontcourt.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Thu Jan 31, 2019 at 09:14pm.
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 12:59pm
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No More Jump Balls ...

Oh, I almost forgot.

No more jump balls.

Start the game by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and use the alternating possession arrow after that, even to start any overtimes.

Also, a preemptive post to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: "Shut up".
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 03:49pm
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So this is discovered after Team A scores a basket. Do you give the ball to Team B on the end line nearest to the basket they are trying to score for a spot throw in or do you march them to the other end in which they can run along the end line?

Edit: I see ilyazhito answered my question, is there rule reference?
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 04:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
So this is discovered after Team A scores a basket. Do you give the ball to Team B on the end line nearest to the basket they are trying to score for a spot throw in or do you march them to the other end in which they can run along the end line?

Edit: I see ilyazhito answered my question, is there rule reference?
I'm sure there is a case play somewhere, but it also falls under the category of common sense. We're fixing the direction. After a made basket, the opponent has a throw-in at the opposite end of the court from its own basket. So if recognized after a made basket, correct the direction and put ball in play where it would normally be put in play after a made basket.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Jan 31, 2019 at 04:12pm.
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 05:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I'm sure there is a case play somewhere, but it also falls under the category of common sense. We're fixing the direction. After a made basket, the opponent has a throw-in at the opposite end of the court from its own basket. So if recognized after a made basket, correct the direction and put ball in play where it would normally be put in play after a made basket.
I think we are on the same page that they should take the ball to the other end for the throw in but he is stating that you would have a throw in right under the basket you are trying to score on.
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Old Thu Jan 31, 2019, 07:19pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
is there rule reference?
4-5-4, "Basket, Choice": "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location."
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Old Fri Feb 01, 2019, 07:41am
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One Discombobulated Player ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Same scenario, but while they warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, all the players get discombobulated and go the incorrect way for several minutes, scoring several baskets, and only then is it realized that the player's screwed up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... the officials are also "fooled" and don't figure it out until several minutes, and several baskets, by both teams, into the game??
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
4-5-4, "Basket, Choice": "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction based on bench location."
Nice citation LRZ. Thanks.

Does 4-5-4 cover the situation where a single player gets discombobulated and scores in the wrong basket, especially off the jump ball?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... If discovered within seconds (warmup the correct way, are instructed by the officials to go the correct way, and line up for the jump ball the correct way, no backcourt) with only one basket scored, I'm counting the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered.
Am I wrong to count the basket for the team whose basket the ball entered in this single player case?
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Old Fri Feb 01, 2019, 10:08am
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BillyMac, I am of the opposite opinion, no AP arrow. If the officials, or the table cannot keep track of possessions correctly,
it will result in teams gaining unmerited possessions (and possibly undeserved points of the unmerited possessions). This is far more dangerous than teams lining up incorrectly, because teams in the wrong direction can be corrected at any time in the game, but an AP error can only be corrected before the throw-in ends. A jump ball, on the other hand, is a random process that does not depend on mechanical gadgets and people's memories. This is why I would rather have jump balls for all cases of disputed possessions.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Fri Feb 01, 2019 at 02:51pm.
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Old Fri Feb 01, 2019, 10:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I am of the opposite opinion, no AP arrow. A jump ball, on the other hand, is a random process that does not depend on mechanical gadgets and people's memories. This is why I would rather have jump balls ...
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