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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 01:02pm
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Technicals, team fouls and bonus

Understanding technical fouls count towards team fouls.

I'm sitting here racking my mind If the 7th team foul comes as a result of technical foul, are we also shooting the 1 and bonus or 2 shots if it's the 10th?

I'm inclined to say no but do not have rule book with me to reference or cite. A Buddy of mine at work and I were discussing and I am wanting to check myself.

Thanks for your help on this and many other topics I merely read here.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 01:14pm
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Technical Fouls Carry Their Own Penalty ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
If the 7th team foul comes as a result of technical foul, are we also shooting the 1 and bonus or 2 shots if it's the 10th?
Technical fouls carry their own penalty (often, but not always, two free throws and ball at division line) and have nothing to do with bonus (or double bonus) situations, even though they do "count" as team fouls toward such.

Think of the technical foul penalties as "trumping" the other types of foul penalties.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 01:50pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 01:59pm
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Common sense approach. Free throws are shot in order of occurrence. If the common foul was first and only the 6th team foul, what free throws would you be shooting for a 6th team foul?
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...

Think of the technical foul penalties as "trumping" the other types of foul penalties.
They don't trump other penalties, you are just penalizing in order of occurrence.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:38pm
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Poor Word Choice ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
They don't trump other penalties, you are just penalizing in order of occurrence.
Poor choice of words, just meant to state that one doesn't do both penalties (technical foul penalty and the bonus penalty) for one illegal act (the technical foul), even if the technical foul is the eighth, or eleventh, team foul of the half.
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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 02:41pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Poor choice of words, just meant to state that one doesn't do both penalties (technical foul penalty and the bonus penalty) for one illegal act (the technical foul), even if the technical foul is the eighth, or eleventh, team foul of the half.
The free throw penalty for a technical foul is 2 shots. Never understood why any official would try to add on the free throw penalty for a common foul.

That's why I always keep the explanation simple: penalize in the order of occurrence. The penalty for a common foul in OP is a throw-in. There is a subsequent technical foul prior to the throw-in. The penalty for a technical foul is 2 shots and a division line throw-in.

I wish officials would use proper terminology and eliminate extra verbiage when teaching, because is cuts down on confusion.
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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 02:48pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 02:54pm
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Common Foul ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
The penalty for a common foul in OP is a throw-in.
For the life of me, I can't find a common foul anywhere in the original post.

The only foul RefsNCoaches described was a technical foul that happened to be the seventh team foul of the half.

It's pretty simple to figure out order of occurrence when there was only one foul.

Wait. Now I see why you may have mistakenly posted about order of occurrence.

I was wondering about that, thought that I might have missed something, but turns out the post confused me.
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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 03:01pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:05pm
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Thanks for the replies fellas...

Raymond, I'm not shooting any FTs for 6th team foul unless it's a T or shooting foul

So to recap...no additional FTs for a T that creates the the 7th-10th team fouls...just the 2 for the T.

I guess in my opening question, if the 6th foul committed against a shooter in the act of shooting, that was missed, followed by T, then we'd shoot the 2 for the missed shot, then the 2 for the T. But that's the 6th, not the 7th
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
For the life of me, I can't find a common foul anywhere in the original post.

The only foul RefsNCoaches described was a technical foul that happened to be the seventh team foul of the half.

It's pretty simple to figure out order of occurrence when there was only one foul.

Wait. Now I see why you may have mistakenly posted about order of occurrence.

I was wondering about that, thought that I might have missed something, but turns out the post confused me.
I had assumed the only reason to have this discussion would be because of a 6th (or 9th) team foul called immediately prior to the technical.

I didn't realize the question was "do we shoot one-and-one plus 2 for the T" whenever the Tech is the 7th, 8th, or 9th team foul" or "do we shoot 2 free throws plus 2 for the T whenever the Tech is the 10th or greater team foul?"
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 06:50pm
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Everything's Copacetic ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I had assumed the only reason to have this discussion would be because of a 6th (or 9th) team foul called immediately prior to the technical.
Felix Unger, The Odd Couple, Assume, Yada, Yada, Yada ...

(What's worse, mixed metaphors, or mixed television situation comedy references?)

I fully understand. Everything's copacetic.

Communication would be a lot easier and much better if we could discuss these situations over adult beverages at the local gin mill, as God intended, instead of banging away at a keyboard.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 07:13pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 06:56pm
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Batman Reference ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
If the 7th team foul comes as a result of technical foul, are we also shooting the 1 and bonus or 2 shots if it's the 10th?
Riddle me this.

White #2 and Blue #3 decide to have a chest bumping contest on the neutral mark of the lane during a live ball. A double foul is called on White #2 and Blue #3. It's White Team's third foul the half and it's Blue Team's eighth foul of the half.

How do we penalize?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 07:03pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 06:59pm
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Another Batman Reference ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches View Post
If the 7th team foul comes as a result of technical foul, are we also shooting the 1 and bonus or 2 shots if it's the 10th?
Riddle me this.

White #2 intentionally fouls Blue #3 near the neutral mark of the lane during a live ball. Blue #3 is not in the act of shooting. It's White Team's eighth foul of the half.

How do we penalize?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 18, 2018 at 07:04pm.
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Old Tue Dec 18, 2018, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Riddle me this.

White #2 intentionally fouls Blue #3 near the neutral mark of the lane during a live ball. Blue #3 is not in the act of shooting. It's White Team's eighth foul of the half.

How do we penalize?

2 shots by Blue 3, with possession to Blue at the end line nearest to where the foul occurred. This is just the basic penalty for an intentional foul. There is no "double jeopardy", so the foul is only punished once (with the intentional foul free throws and possession), and is recorded as a team foul. The penalty would be exactly the same as if the intentional foul was White's third foul of the half.
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Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 09:56am
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I dont believe that anyone has written the most important fact for the OP.

Bonus FTs are only awarded for COMMON fouls and only when such are the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th or higher of each half. Bonus FTs do not ever apply to intentional personal fouls, technical fouls, double fouls, multiple fouls, or simultaneous fouls. Those all have there own specific penalties.

If it is not a common foul, do not even consider bonus FTs. They simply dont apply, by rule.
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Old Wed Dec 19, 2018, 10:29am
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Common Foul ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Bonus FTs are only awarded for COMMON fouls and only when such are the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th or higher of each half. Bonus FTs do not ever apply to intentional personal fouls, technical fouls, double fouls, multiple fouls, or simultaneous fouls. Those all have there own specific penalties. If it is not a common foul, do not even consider bonus FTs. They simply dont apply, by rule.
4-8-1: A bonus free throw is the second free throw awarded for a -
common foul (except a player-control or team-control foul)

4-19-2: A common foul is a personal foul which is neither flagrant nor -
intentional nor committed against a player trying or tapping for a field goal
nor a part of a double, simultaneous or multiple foul.
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