D3 Player Takes Cheap Shot

[NCHSAA]

I didn't scan through the last 6 pages to see if anyone mentioned the Lead's position, but this is a perfect example why you must work hard to get "outside-in" position. The Lead is closed off and tunnel visioned. I have an assignor who wouldn't raise h*** over whether its a F2 Personal or Technical Foul, but he would target the Lead on his position.

Especially, since this video shows the Trail watching the flight of the ball, it's a perfect example to show why Lead must open up on those corner shots! Thank God Trail had enough courage to trust his gut because Lead was no help!

[ilyazhito]

Lead was watching what he was supposed to, the matchups in his PCA on his side of the post. Maybe he might have seen the offender, White 23 dashing to the corner, and then open up while keeping his PCA matchups in view, but Trail officiated the play correctly. Successful 3, Flagrant 2, 2 free throws and possession to A.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Lead was watching what he was supposed to, the matchups in his PCA on his side of the post. Maybe he might have seen the offender, White 23 dashing to the corner, and then open up while keeping his PCA matchups in view, but Trail officiated the play correctly. Successful 3, Flagrant 2, 2 free throws and possession to A.

The Lead has better looks at corner shots than Trail. I believe this has been an NCAA Women's mechanic (Lead takes plays below FTL extended) for some time. The assignor who has instilled this coverage mechanic throughout some of my conferences was an NBA official. At first, I thought it was just a nonsense mechanic coming down from the top. However, when you start implementing this coverage mechanic, those plays become easier to officiate.

I'm not saying Trail didn't have a great look, but bringing these points up from a position standpoint.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

The Lead has better looks at corner shots than Trail. I believe this has been an NCAA Women's mechanic (Lead takes plays below FTL extended) for some time.

I disagree. The Trail is all over this. Sees the entire play and properly calls a Flagrant Foul on the spot. Does not need help to make the call at least at the spot. Men's Mechanics does not extend coverage to the sideline (and properly so IMO). This is in the lead's coverage area. The Lead can help, but he had a lot going on in the lane and if he not watch the lane, he probably is surprised by the crash that took place before for the shot attempt (good no call).

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

The assignor who has instilled this coverage mechanic throughout some of my conferences was an NBA official. At first, I thought it was just a nonsense mechanic coming down from the top. However, when you start implementing this coverage mechanic, those plays become easier to officiate.

I'm not saying Trail didn't have a great look, but bringing these points up from a position standpoint.

I would assume that if you are working college, it did not come from one person, it came from the CCA committee. I work for a guy that is on the Men's CCA Committee and they do very different things than the NBA.

Peace

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree. The Trail is all over this. Sees the entire play and properly calls a Flagrant Foul on the spot. Does not need help to make the call at least at the spot. Men's Mechanics does not extend coverage to the sideline (and properly so IMO). This is in the lead's coverage area. The Lead can help, but he had a lot going on in the lane and if he not watch the lane, he probably is surprised by the crash that took place before for the shot attempt (good no call).



I would assume that if you are working college, it did not come from one person, it came from the CCA committee. I work for a guy that is on the Men's CCA Committee and they do very different things than the NBA.

Peace

Corner 3's - Lead must look. Whether he is the only one or not, he must help out. Say Trail didn't have a whistle on this play because he was ball watching, who could have stepped in and saved the day? Lead.

As for your last paragraph, I didn't understand. The assignor for the Big South and Conference Carolina's has instilled this coverage area in his staff - Lead take the corner 3, Trail look in the lane, along with Slot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

Corner 3's - Lead must look. Whether he is the only one or not, he must help out. Say Trail didn't have a whistle on this play because he was ball watching, who could have stepped in and saved the day? Lead.

I am going to disagree with the "must look" position. He could have opened up to the shooter better, but he also has 8 players in the lane. The play went hard to the paint and then the pass was thrown to the corner. This was not a half-court set play, this was in transition.

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

As for your last paragraph, I didn't understand. The assignor for the Big South and Conference Carolina's has instilled this coverage area in his staff - Lead take the corner 3, Trail look in the lane, along with Slot.

There is as mechanics book that is approved by the NCAA and referenced in the NCAA literature and videos. I cannot speak for what one assignor says to his staff or does not say to his staff. And unless this game was in his conference, then what he might teach or expect might be a little different. But as it relates to what the CCA actually puts out, I am not seeing this play in particular as a play the lead needs to be so focused on the shot in this case. I work for a guy that is actually on the CCA Committee as the D3 Representative. He preaches what is approved in the book to his staff that works everything from D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO Men's basketball. That is not the primary of the lead. It has never been in CCA Men's Mechanics. Opening up and seeing that play are not the same things IMO.

Peace

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am going to disagree with the "must look" position. He could have opened up to the shooter better, but he also has 8 players in the lane. The play went hard to the paint and then the pass was thrown to the corner. This was not a half-court set play, this was in transition.



There is as mechanics book that is approved by the NCAA and referenced in the NCAA literature and videos. I cannot speak for what one assignor says to his staff or does not say to his staff. And unless this game was in his conference, then what he might teach or expect might be a little different. But as it relates to what the CCA actually puts out, I am not seeing this play in particular as a play the lead needs to be so focused on the shot in this case. I work for a guy that is actually on the CCA Committee as the D3 Representative. He preaches what is approved in the book to his staff that works everything from D2, D3, NAIA, and JUCO Men's basketball. That is not the primary of the lead. It has never been in CCA Men's Mechanics. Opening up and seeing that play are not the same things IMO.

Peace

I must admit. I have barely looked at the CCA Manual. I think the different viewpoints on this coverage area illuminates the different officiating tracks (not sure if I am using the right words to describe my point). NCAA officials who work for assignors who only worked in the NCAA themselves are probably not going to learn this coverage area. Whereas, those who work for an assignor who spent time in the NBA, or was at least influenced by the NBA, will probably learn this coverage area regardless of whether it is adopted by the CCA or not.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

...The assignor for the Big South and Conference Carolina's has instilled this coverage area in his staff - Lead take the corner 3, Trail look in the lane, along with Slot.

That's NBA and NCAA-W's coverage. I work Pro-Am every summer for 2 NBA officials and it's the coverage that NCAA-M's and HS officials have to adjust to when working for them.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Raymond

That's NBA and NCAA-W's coverage. I work Pro-Am every summer for 2 NBA officials and it's the coverage that NCAA-M's and HS officials have to adjust to when working for them.

I know. I love it. You would think the NCAA-M would recognize that they are the "odd man out".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Lead was watching what he was supposed to, the matchups in his PCA on his side of the post. Maybe he might have seen the offender, White 23 dashing to the corner, and then open up while keeping his PCA matchups in view, but Trail officiated the play correctly. Successful 3, Flagrant 2, 2 free throws and possession to A.

In NCAA-Men's mechanics, the Lead is supposed to open up to 3-point shooters in the corner, which means getting wide when the ball goes to the corner. His initial positioning was not good, IMO. He can still see the post while staying wide and stealing a peek at the shooter. By the time the contact occurred he was correctly concentrating on the rebounding action in the paint though.

I've been doing it for years in my low-level (and occasionally higher level) college games.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

In NCAA-Men's mechanics, the Lead is supposed to open up to 3-point shooters in the corner, which means getting wide when the ball goes to the corner. His initial positioning was not good, IMO. He can still see the post while staying wide and stealing a peek at the shooter. By the time the contact occurred he was correctly concentrating on the rebounding action in the paint though.

I've been doing it for years in my low-level (and occasionally higher level) college games.

How does that work with the "up-down-rebound" coverage pattern that officials are instructed to use on shots? If Trail is responsible for the shot (the "up" part), then it stands to reason that he is also responsible for the shooter coming down safely, any contact against him, and rebounding activity. Thus, any look that the lead might have on this play is secondary.

What would you have done as the Lead to officiate both the pass-crash play a few seconds before the 3-point shot, and the F2 foul against the 3-point shooter?

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

How does that work with the "up-down-rebound" coverage pattern that officials are instructed to use on shots? If Trail is responsible for the shot (the "up" part), then it stands to reason that he is also responsible for the shooter coming down safely, any contact against him, and rebounding activity. Thus, any look that the lead might have on this play is secondary.

What would you have done as the Lead to officiate both the pass-crash play a few seconds before the 3-point shot, and the F2 foul against the 3-point shooter?

My perspective is coming from working under an NCAA supervisor who preaches the "Lead-Corner Coverage" because of his background. There are several forms of this coverage: NBA = Lead all the way | NCAA = At least open up. If my particular supervisor was breaking down this coverage, he would likely say: LEAD take the shot | TRAIL look into the paint or help LEAD if there is not much action in paint | CENTER/SLOT take the paint. However, every case is different.

If I am in the game in question, this is what I would have likely done. I would be wide as LEAD and anticipate the pass and possible crash, since the offensive team had a player posted in the corner. You have to anticipate plays, not calls. Most of the pass and crashes are no calls because the play has moved to another area at the time of contact. Most of the time, the offensive player does not go "to and through", but this is not always the case. Once I determine that there is nothing on the pass and crash, I would then take the corner 3-point shot, and stay with the shooter UP and DOWN.

If the pass and crash was severe and a call did not come from LEAD, you always have CENTER/SLOT that should be helping with such a critical situation/play.

Just my 2 1/2 cents!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

My perspective is coming from working under an NCAA supervisor who preaches the "Lead-Corner Coverage" because of his background. There are several forms of this coverage: NBA = Lead all the way | NCAA = At least open up. If my particular supervisor was breaking down this coverage, he would likely say: LEAD take the shot | TRAIL look into the paint or help LEAD if there is not much action in paint | CENTER/SLOT take the paint. However, every case is different.

If I am in the game in question, this is what I would have likely done. I would be wide as LEAD and anticipate the pass and possible crash, since the offensive team had a player posted in the corner. You have to anticipate plays, not calls. Most of the pass and crashes are no calls because the play has moved to another area at the time of contact. Most of the time, the offensive player does not go "to and through", but this is not always the case. Once I determine that there is nothing on the pass and crash, I would then take the corner 3-point shot, and stay with the shooter UP and DOWN.

If the pass and crash was severe and a call did not come from LEAD, you always have CENTER/SLOT that should be helping with such a critical situation/play.

Just my 2 1/2 cents!

I get all of that, but that is not how it is taught across the country for everyone. This was a hard play to the lane and the pass was after there were all the players in the lane and there was a crash. I get what you might have been taught, but I have never heard a D1 official that works that level put that much emphasis on a corner three in transition when the play originated in the lane. Yes, in the halfcourt you might have a situation where the ball moves to the corner that the officials take a look over there (the ball is potentially coming to the lane or primary of the lead), but this was not a typical situation. Not to say that the official could not have seen some of the play, but he had about 6 or 7 players in the lane. The C might not have the angles for all those players. The Lead does not have their primary outside the 3 point line. The Lead has most of the lane. This would have been at best a secondary coverage call and one where the Trail clearly saw this play. The Trail did not hesitate one bit to make this call. There was even a debate that was had in an association meeting where we were reviewing a play and the college official said that he should not have had a call in the lane in transition (and this was in transition) and it sparked a heavy debate in that meeting. So clearly everyone is not on board with the things you are saying. Good discussion, but it certainly is not something everyone is going with when you say that is how this play should be covered. I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that is not everyone's perspective on this play or how we cover these plays.

Peace

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I get all of that, but that is not how it is taught across the country for everyone. This was a hard play to the lane and the pass was after there were all the players in the lane and there was a crash. I get what you might have been taught, but I have never heard a D1 official that works that level put that much emphasis on a corner three in transition when the play originated in the lane. Yes, in the halfcourt you might have a situation where the ball moves to the corner that the officials take a look over there (the ball is potentially coming to the lane or primary of the lead), but this was not a typical situation. Not to say that the official could not have seen some of the play, but he had about 6 or 7 players in the lane. The C might not have the angles for all those players. The Lead does not have their primary outside the 3 point line. The Lead has most of the lane. This would have been at best a secondary coverage call and one where the Trail clearly saw this play. The Trail did not hesitate one bit to make this call. There was even a debate that was had in an association meeting where we were reviewing a play and the college official said that he should not have had a call in the lane in transition (and this was in transition) and it sparked a heavy debate in that meeting. So clearly everyone is not on board with the things you are saying. Good discussion, but it certainly is not something everyone is going with when you say that is how this play should be covered. I am not saying you are wrong, just saying that is not everyone's perspective on this play or how we cover these plays.

Peace

I agree that we are all going to have different perspectives. What I was hoping to accomplish was to move away from critiquing whether it was an F2 Personal or Technical Foul and examine the positioning of the officials in view - mainly LEAD. This is where, IMO, critique needs to happen first before moving into call accuracy. As a result, the discussion illuminated different perspectives on coverage. It naturally occurs given the varying backgrounds of conference supervisors - past NCAA or NBA officials - and how they teach their officials.

Great discussion!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Lead was watching what he was supposed to, the matchups in his PCA on his side of the post. Maybe he might have seen the offender, White 23 dashing to the corner, and then open up while keeping his PCA matchups in view, but Trail officiated the play correctly. Successful 3, Flagrant 2, 2 free throws and possession to A.

Actually, the lead was NOT in proper position. The L should mirror the ball and should have moved out as far as the 3-point arc. Even if the L is focused on the post area, being wide in a mirroring position puts this play in his peripheral vision. Where he was, he had no chance to pick it up....that is one of the reasons why we mirror the ball.