D3 Player Takes Cheap Shot

[Raymond]

Can someone recap the 2 sides of this debate so I can decide which side I'm on? I've lost track of what this discussion is about.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Can someone recap the 2 sides of this debate so I can decide which side I'm on? I've lost track of what this discussion is about.

Rich said that he would rule a F2 technical.

I replied and said I would rule a F2 personal since that ball was not entirely through the net, but I acknowledged that it was very close and at the end of the day wouldn't be a huge deal (since the penalty is the same except for potentially the shooter and the throw-in spot).

Rich also acknowledged that it was very close and without a monitor he would understand why officials may error on the personal/technical aspect of this play.

JRut then went on a tangent and said that the ball wasn't even close to being dead and basically implied that it would be the end of the world if you ruled an F2TF on this instead of an F2PF. Said coaches would complain and you have to "beat the tape" which no one disputed, but not really relevant to the discussion. I responded that many officials don't even understand the difference between the two fouls, what makes you think the average coach would know? As long as the player is ejected and the offended team gets two FTs and the ball, no one will lose sleep. He implied that it is worse to rule the ball dead when it is actually live than vice-versa, then when asked to defend his point he didn't. Then he implied I didn't care about "beating the tape" and spilled off his resume, again not even addressing the irrelevance/illogicality of his points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

JRut then went on a tangent and said that the ball wasn't even close to being dead and basically implied that it would be the end of the world if you ruled an F2TF on this instead of an F2PF. Said coaches would complain and you have to "beat the tape" which no one disputed, but not really relevant to the discussion. I responded that many officials don't even understand the difference between the two fouls, what makes you think the average coach would know? As long as the player is ejected and the offended team gets two FTs and the ball, no one will lose sleep. He implied that it is worse to rule the ball dead when it is actually live than vice-versa, then when asked to defend his point he didn't. Then he implied I didn't care about "beating the tape" and spilled off his resume, again not even addressing the irrelevance/illogicality of his points.

I said the ball was not clearly dead and probably would only be determined by looking a the replay (which they did not have) or clearly seeing this live. And yes you have to beat the tape if you are calling something based off of something you did not see live. Just like "hook and hold" plays, you have to be right.

I also disagree with the premise of what a coach might not say. That is you projecting to know what coaches will or will not do at this or all levels.

And if you saw the coach's tape that showed a situation right before this foul called on the play, it is possible a coach would care that you did not take care of something before this happened. There was a situation with these two players right before the incident that is posted. The coach might have felt that the officials handled the entire situation poorly and this is why this happened. There might be more plays where things were not handled correctly by the officials in the coach's opinion. It would not be the first time that

I also did not say a thing about my resume'. I did not say what level I worked or what level I did not work. I do work college ball, but that is very general and very not specific. Even that matters little if you live in certain areas because not everyone can work all levels of college unless they want to go 5 hours one way for a game. I did give a story of the level of the game I referenced I worked yesterday illustrating how petty coaches can be even when you are doing the right thing. I said you keep talking about a level you have said you did not work in the past. That means that you may not be aware of what is asked of officials at this level. We are not talking about high school basketball where the details might not matter, because the basketball coach is likely the math teacher too. A college coach is living for every moment in the game because he or she might not live in that community next year if they do not win or recruit the right kids. This kid on the team could be a reflection of the coach too. So yes, they might care if some guy does not enforce the rules properly even if it is close. Honestly, I was not speaking to you when I said this, I was speaking to those that want to work these games and think "No one will care" and they will quickly show you how much they care or it might matter to you personally.

Heck, tonight is our season start, better not say that it is my 23rd year of basketball officiating and working a tournament. God Forbid that people talk about those things when talking about what happens with us personally because people like you will think that is talking about your resume'.

Peace