Slow Boat To China ...

[Pantherdreams]

At the moment he ends his dribble (catches the ball on the move) the next foot (or feet if both are on the ground) counts a a "zero" step. Next step is the pivot foot, next step is the 2nd of your "2 steps".

NBA and FIBA both have adaptations of this rule because it:
A) Increases opportunity for dynamic plays
B) Decreases the stress and risk for injury associated with quicker/harder stops for high level athletes moving and very high rates.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

At the moment he ends his dribble (catches the ball on the move) the next foot (or feet if both are on the ground) counts a a "zero" step. Next step is the pivot foot, next step is the 2nd of your "2 steps". NBA and FIBA both have adaptations of this rule ...

Thanks Pantherdreams. That's exactly what I was looking for (granted, in a roundabout way).

Also explains the odd travel no calls that I observed when my daughter played in a youth tournament in Spain.

[bucky]

Officials know it is illegal for NFHS/NCAA/FIBA/"X" organization because they have seen/read the rule. If you want to know why it is legal in the NBA, just go read the rule. The NBA rules are online in many places.

Many people talk about the "possible" travel portion of the play. Many think it should be traveling but not one person, not even on this forum, mentioned the "possible" palming/carrying violations. I counted 2 of them. On the forum some say it would be traveling but no one said it would be palming/carrying, or even "traveling" to some, while he was dribbling.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... not one person, not even on this forum, mentioned the "possible" palming/carrying violations. I counted 2 of them ...

[bucky]

Classic BM, just classic.

[justacoach]

[QUOTE=Pantherdreams;1025262]At the moment he ends his dribble (catches the ball on the move) the next foot (or feet if both are on the ground) counts a a "zero" step. Next step is the pivot foot, next step is the 2nd of your "2 steps".

NBA and FIBA both have adaptations of this rule because it:
A) Increases opportunity for dynamic plays
B) Decreases the stress and risk for injury associated with quicker/harder stops for high level athletes moving and very high rOTE]

FWIW, my 2 resident NBA rules practitioners quickly referenced the "zero" step and would not have a whistle for travelling on this play.

They confirmed the foot movements involved in this play warrant a whistle in HS game.

[thedewed]

I think the NBA rule is worded differently, but with same result. Might be wrong, but if so, someone explain specifically what it allows that NCAA rules don't?

The NBA description of this rule is consistent with what I see, it isn't a travel in lower levels either if you give benefit of the doubt on when the gather happens here. he's taking the ball from his left hand to his right as he's in the air, and gathers while in the air, then lands once with each foot. And that's the NBA's interpretation. How would that be a travel at lower levels? Remember, the gather should be, and is in practical terms in NCAA, a loose interpretation whether it is a spin move, layup, Euro step, or this move. They want the gather at higher levels to be judged loosely.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I think the NBA rule is worded differently, but with same result. Might be wrong, but if so, someone explain specifically what it allows that NCAA rules don't?

The NBA description of this rule is consistent with what I see, it isn't a travel in lower levels either if you give benefit of the doubt on when the gather happens here. he's taking the ball from his left hand to his right as he's in the air, and gathers while in the air, then lands once with each foot. And that's the NBA's interpretation. How would that be a travel at lower levels? Remember, the gather should be, and is in practical terms in NCAA, a loose interpretation whether it is a spin move, layup, Euro step, or this move. They want the gather at higher levels to be judged loosely.

He gathers with his right foot on the ground and his left foot in the air, making his right foot the pivot foot. He puts his right foot back down before shooting.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I think the NBA rule is worded differently, but with same result. Might be wrong, but if so, someone explain specifically what it allows that NCAA rules don't?

The NBA description of this rule is consistent with what I see, it isn't a travel in lower levels either if you give benefit of the doubt on when the gather happens here. he's taking the ball from his left hand to his right as he's in the air, and gathers while in the air, then lands once with each foot. And that's the NBA's interpretation. How would that be a travel at lower levels? Remember, the gather should be, and is in practical terms in NCAA, a loose interpretation whether it is a spin move, layup, Euro step, or this move. They want the gather at higher levels to be judged loosely.

Of course, there is no gather defined, but only the ball coming to rest in ONE or both hands. The pivot foot is established when the ball is in his left hand, not when or after he shifts it to his right. If that were not the case, a player could continually shift the ball back and forth and never have a pivot foot.

[bucky]

[QUOTE=justacoach;1025315]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

FWIW, my 2 resident NBA rules practitioners quickly referenced the "zero" step and would not have a whistle for travelling on this play.

Ask your 2 resident NBA rules practitioners about having the hand under the ball and rolling the hand entirely to the top of the ball when dribbling, lol.

[thedewed]

where in the nba rules is there a difference in carrying the ball? maybe there is, but I doubt it.

he takes the ball behind the back in a manner that would be a dribble had it gone to the ground. the fact that he interrupts its path by catching it in the right means the key time is when it is caught in the right hand, not what happens to it in the left, in my mind.

In any event, the NBA is on record as saying it's legal, and I'll bet there is no difference between the carrying rules in the 2 leagues. correct me if I'm wrong.

[bucky]

I am not disagreeing with the NBA's rule and how it was applied but...

This is like saying someone can stand there and toss, in an obviously controlled fashion, the ball from hand to hand repeatedly and move their pivot foot. Instead of tossing it from side to side repeatedly in front of him, he did it once in back. Some day the bigs are going to realize that this meneuver is legal and incorporate it into their low-post game. Now, a few guards do it. Some day, everyone will be doing it and it will look sooooooo weird. It just takes time because players' games are developed under the NFHS/NCAA rule sets, not the NBA.

[thedewed]

I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.

The NBA specifically said this was legal because of the zero step interp, and not because of some "carry" interp.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.

If it doesn't go to the ground, it was never a dribble to start. There is a case play that says a player that tosses the ball into the air and move and catches it has traveled. This is the same. The direction of the toss doesn't matter.