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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 11:22am
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[QUOTE=justacoach;1025315]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post

FWIW, my 2 resident NBA rules practitioners quickly referenced the "zero" step and would not have a whistle for travelling on this play.
Ask your 2 resident NBA rules practitioners about having the hand under the ball and rolling the hand entirely to the top of the ball when dribbling, lol.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 12:18pm
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where in the nba rules is there a difference in carrying the ball? maybe there is, but I doubt it.

he takes the ball behind the back in a manner that would be a dribble had it gone to the ground. the fact that he interrupts its path by catching it in the right means the key time is when it is caught in the right hand, not what happens to it in the left, in my mind.

In any event, the NBA is on record as saying it's legal, and I'll bet there is no difference between the carrying rules in the 2 leagues. correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 01:04pm
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I am not disagreeing with the NBA's rule and how it was applied but...

This is like saying someone can stand there and toss, in an obviously controlled fashion, the ball from hand to hand repeatedly and move their pivot foot. Instead of tossing it from side to side repeatedly in front of him, he did it once in back. Some day the bigs are going to realize that this meneuver is legal and incorporate it into their low-post game. Now, a few guards do it. Some day, everyone will be doing it and it will look sooooooo weird. It just takes time because players' games are developed under the NFHS/NCAA rule sets, not the NBA.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 05:58pm
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I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 06:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.
The NBA specifically said this was legal because of the zero step interp, and not because of some "carry" interp.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 09:34pm
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[QUOTE=bucky;1025325]
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach View Post

Ask your 2 resident NBA rules practitioners about having the hand under the ball and rolling the hand entirely to the top of the ball when dribbling, lol.
As highly trained professionals, they disdainfully ignore any chatter from the peanut gallery. They received their early instruction from their dad.

FWIW, the highly trained professional who was present on the court during this action is a colleague of theirs. His professional judgement is, likewise, beyond reproach.

He also received extensive early training and continuing tutelage from his dad.

Maybe you'd like to take it up with his dad, Joe DeRosa.

Any other questions?
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Last edited by justacoach; Sun Oct 14, 2018 at 09:45pm.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 10:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
I don't agree, only the first is arguably the same motion as a behind the back dribble, and when it is caught in the other hand it's not a dribble. apparently that is the NBA interpretation as well. I don't believe there is a different interpretation, or at least wording, at the college level, but perhaps there is. I doubt it.
If it doesn't go to the ground, it was never a dribble to start. There is a case play that says a player that tosses the ball into the air and move and catches it has traveled. This is the same. The direction of the toss doesn't matter.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The NBA specifically said this was legal because of the zero step interp, and not because of some "carry" interp.
wrong , they said that he gathered and THEN took 2 steps. same as NCAA rule as far as I know
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 12:23am
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[QUOTE=justacoach;1025332]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post

As highly trained professionals, they disdainfully ignore any chatter from the peanut gallery. They received their early instruction from their dad.

FWIW, the highly trained professional who was present on the court during this action is a colleague of theirs. His professional judgement is, likewise, beyond reproach.

He also received extensive early training and continuing tutelage from his dad.

Maybe you'd like to take it up with his dad, Joe DeRosa.

Any other questions?
Sure, why was he watching neither the ball handler nor defender at the beginning of the clip? Why are NBA refs wearing such tight shirts? Why was he briefly straightlined with the Harden and the ball? Why do some refs signal a made 3 with 2 arms up and others only one? How does it feel to be a national champion? Why do NBA referees change shirt designs so often? Do NBA refs actually look/find a pivot foot when someone holds the ball? Why did you father stop officiating NBA but continue at other levels? There are too many to list in one post?

It isn't the judgement being questioned rather the logic in applying one rule and possibly not another. The NBA explained the non-travel call. If only they explained many others. Won't happen because no one likes to be questioned. That would mean transparency, lol.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 12:25am
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
wrong , they said that he gathered and THEN took 2 steps. same as NCAA rule as far as I know
That is not quite the rule. If a player "gathers" with a foot on the floor (and the other off the floor), then that foot is the pivot. They cannot lift and bring that foot back to the floor without violating the traveling rule. That is the same rule in both NF and NCAA.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 10:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post

Sure, why was he watching neither the ball handler nor defender at the beginning of the clip? Why are NBA refs wearing such tight shirts? Why was he briefly straightlined with the Harden and the ball? Why do some refs signal a made 3 with 2 arms up and others only one? How does it feel to be a national champion? Why do NBA referees change shirt designs so often? Do NBA refs actually look/find a pivot foot when someone holds the ball? Why did you father stop officiating NBA but continue at other levels? There are too many to list in one post?

It isn't the judgement being questioned rather the logic in applying one rule and possibly not another. The NBA explained the non-travel call. If only they explained many others. Won't happen because no one likes to be questioned. That would mean transparency, lol.
Maybe you missed it but there were 2 dads and 3 different officials referenced in my reply.

I cannot speak for any of the 3rd parties involved but, as for myself, I would dissuade you from concerning yourself with advanced issues that are well beyond your current level of training, experience, philosophy, sophistication and salary level.

Seems you have a way to go until you master the requisite skills and nuance pertinent to your current work environment.

If you would like to experience some transparency, have a look at the daily report at

2017-18 NBA Officiating Last Two Minute Reports | NBA Official

You may be able to begin to glean the answers to your impertinent questions.
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Last edited by justacoach; Mon Oct 15, 2018 at 10:45am.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
wrong , they said that he gathered and THEN took 2 steps. same as NCAA rule as far as I know
You don't know the NCAA rule then.

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 12:49pm
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[QUOTE=bucky;1025335]
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Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
... The NBA explained the non-travel call. If only they explained many others. Won't happen because no one likes to be questioned. That would mean transparency, lol.
Joe Borgia has weekly show during the season explaining the rules, so I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 06:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That is not quite the rule. If a player "gathers" with a foot on the floor (and the other off the floor), then that foot is the pivot. They cannot lift and bring that foot back to the floor without violating the traveling rule. That is the same rule in both NF and NCAA.

Peace
Yes I agree. They, like the NCAA , want to be liberal with when the gather is completed, and like we see here, their interpretation is that the gather is completed with both feet off the ground, then he comes down 1 2, voila, not a travel.

I think they try to make the travel more understandable with their change in the verbiage, but I don't see a difference in what a travel is. maybe someone out there can show me I'm wrong, and I might be. I am confident this 'gather' issue is seen in a lot of potential travel situations, even as simple as many layups, if you look closely. All high levels they want that called very loosely, from what I've seen, and I agree with that philosophy.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2018, 06:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
You don't know the NCAA rule then.

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If you gather in the air, then come down with one foot, then the other foot, it's not a travel at either level. Maybe you thought I meant the gather took place with a foot on the floor, and then a one and a two. That would be a travel because the pivot foot returned, but any level worth talking about wants that gather given the benefit of the doubt.
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