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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 06:49am
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I try to use HS mechanics in a HS game and college mechanics in a college game.

Perhaps surprisingly, the most difficulty I have is with the three-point signals.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 09:08am
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Use high school mechanics in a high school game and college mechanics in a college game. I’m a former college official and work with college officials every season. We use the mechanics we are supposed to use, and incorporate variations where acceptable. If someone wants to punch on player control fouls, that is not something I care about, and in fact I do it myself on the prelim.

Again, this is not something you should lose sleep over. If college officials are incorporating “unapproved” mechanics in a HS game, that is between them and their assigner, and they are more than likely not trying to big time anyone. They probably either forgot or think they have a better way of doing something. It really is not that big of a deal.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 10:30am
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When In Rome ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
If college officials are incorporating “unapproved” mechanics in a HS game, that is between them and their assigner ...
I have no doubt that this is a true statement in many, possibly most, areas.

However, here in my little corner of Connecticut, observers trained for the purpose of rating, as well as partner ratings (although to a more limited extent), also factor into the equation.

From out local board's rating guidelines: Utilizes proper mechanics, up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual.

Mechanics make up 10% of one's rating.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Aug 18, 2018 at 10:33am.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 11:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I have no doubt that this is a true statement in many, possibly most, areas.

However, here in my little corner of Connecticut, observers trained for the purpose of rating, as well as partner ratings (although to a more limited extent), also factor into the equation.

From out local board's rating guidelines: Utilizes proper mechanics, up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual.

Mechanics make up 10% of one's rating.
Which gets us to the question that ilyazhito *should have* asked -- he needs to use the mechanics that are important to the assigners at the level he is working (and that might be *all* mechanics; and it might include the "state" assigners as well as the "local" assigners, depending on the area -- and NO, thazt's not an invitation to say how games get assigned in the various leagues / state series in your area or all 50-states -- no one cares).

If he gets to the point where he only cares about some higher level (and I don't think he's there yet), he can use the *signalling* mechanics for the higher level and it's no big deal if the lower level assigner reduces his schedule. He still needs to use the *floor coverage* mechanics for the level he is working, or the game will suffer because his partners won't know what is going on.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 06:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I have no doubt that this is a true statement in many, possibly most, areas.

However, here in my little corner of Connecticut, observers trained for the purpose of rating, as well as partner ratings (although to a more limited extent), also factor into the equation.

From out local board's rating guidelines: Utilizes proper mechanics, up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual.

Mechanics make up 10% of one's rating.
Who receives the ratings?

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sat Aug 18, 2018, 09:44pm
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Is there an advantage to walking and talking vs reporting from a stationary position in the reporting area? This is a mechanic that some high school and men's college officials do, even though it is not approved for those levels.
IMO, stationary reporting allows the scorer to better see and understand the information that the official is giving on fouls, but walking and talking may be faster for the official.

I understand that when new, follow the book when in doubt. When I get more experienced, then I can deviate if allowed to by local assigners. If I move up to higher-level college (D2/D1), as long as I use proper HS floor coverage, I can use college signals in a HS game (although I'll probably try not to mix the two). If I get to the G-League, this becomes irrelevant .

Well, officials receive the rating, and assignors can see what rating the official in question has (varsity or subvarsity). [Captain Obvious On] Caveat: BillyMac's rating system can differ from yours and mine. [Captain Obvious Off]
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 01:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Is there an advantage to walking and talking vs reporting from a stationary position in the reporting area? This is a mechanic that some high school and men's college officials do, even though it is not approved for those levels.

IMO, stationary reporting allows the scorer to better see and understand the information that the official is giving on fouls, but walking and talking may be faster for the official.
Advantage? Not really. It is probably done because it often does not matter if you stop or not in most cases. For the record, both Men's College and HS have the same table reporting mechanics as it relates to procedures. If you use your voice and clear the players, it really matters little if you are completely stopped or you are moving a little bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I understand that when new, follow the book when in doubt. When I get more experienced, then I can deviate if allowed to by local assigners. If I move up to higher-level college (D2/D1), as long as I use proper HS floor coverage, I can use college signals in a HS game (although I'll probably try not to mix the two). If I get to the G-League, this becomes irrelevant .
I think most officials make an effort to use the mechanics that are subscribed in the book when we start. But then you realize that there are things no one really cares about or holds you to in much detail. I know for me the more experienced I got, the less anyone worried about when I stopped reporting a foul because I handled coaches or players a certain way.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 05:30am
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Ratings ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Who receives the ratings?
The trained observers get together at the end of the season, go through all the observation ratings (including those done by trained observers and those done by partners) and decide the status of each official, varsity, or subvarsity, for the following year. The trained observer ratings are given the most strength, the partner ratings are given less strength.

Officials can view partner ratings (through Arbiter, with the names of the observers deleted) at various times during the season. Individual trained observer ratings are not shared with officials, but if an official has a question about his "final" rating, the chairman of the evaluation committee can communicate the overall findings of those observations with said official.

All rating information is shared with the assignment commissioner.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 05:36am
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Little Corner Of Connecticut ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
BillyMac's rating system can differ from yours and mine.
RATINGS GUIDELINES FOR EVALUATION

APPEARANCE AND CONDITIONING
Official is in physical condition and exhibits hustle and energy through the game.
Official’s uniform and overall appearance is neat, clean and well kept.

MECHANICS
Utilizes proper mechanics, up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual.
Performs accurate foul reporting and clock administration.
Has a resonant, strong voice that is supported by proper mechanics for purpose of clarification

TEAM WORK
Has the ability to work effectively as a “team” with his/her fellow official.
Arrives on time; actively participate in the pre-game.
Actively participate in the post-game.
Accepts criticism.
Shares the responsibility and avoids attempts to shift the blame.

JUDGEMENT
Presents a thorough knowledge of the rules of basketball.
Uses unbiased judgment and common sense in applying the rules of the game.
Appears to make his/her decision with consideration to the effect the calling, or equally as important,
the not calling of a rule violation will have.
Is consistent in all calls regardless of situation or point of time in the game. For example, consistency
in the determination of a block vs. a charge.
Reacts quickly enough to make a decision at the moment of its occurrence.
Makes quick and positive decisions, especially with respect to the “close ones”.

GAME MANAGEMENT
Demonstrates control of the game. Leadership, able to run the game
Communicates with coaches, partners and table.
Is courteous and polite
Exhibits a confident manner i.e. attention to detail, alertness, firmness, and timeliness of his/her
reaction to a situation.
Remains consistent when calling violations or fouls without regard to the score, whom it may hurt,
or how it may effect future relations with the coach. Has a quiet influence on the game that relieves
tensions and creates a steady effect upon contestants (both players and coaches alike).
Has control of his/her emotions.
Takes the time to prevent an error from being made
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 05:56am
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A Saint Ambrose Reference On The Forum, Is That Cool Or What ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Is there an advantage to walking and talking vs reporting from a stationary position in the reporting area?
Do whatever your evaluators and assigner expect, maybe it's "by the book", maybe it's not. Ask your local evaluators. Ask your local assigner. What were you taught by your local training committee as a rookie official? What do your local trainers say at meetings, and clinics?

That's the way to make your way up the ladder in your local association. That's the way to move from subvarsity games to varsity games. That's the way to get more assignments. That's the way to get better assignments.

Take the advice of Saint Ambrose, the ancient basketball official, "Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi".

If your high school Latin is rusty: “If you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there”.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Aug 19, 2018 at 01:34pm.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 06:40am
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I was taught by the book in that regard. I'm guessing that''s the standard way that IAABO cadets are taught. To this day, I stop in the reporting area, no matter whether I work IAABO games or not. Real-life, there is no reason other than personal preference for walking or stopping?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 11:33am
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The Charge of the Light Brigade On The Forum ??? No Way ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Real-life, there is no reason other than personal preference for walking or stopping?


You are absolutely wrong.

Real life is doing what is expected of you to be successful in your local association.

That's real life.

If those who evaluate you expect you to go to the reporting area and stop, then you go to the reporting area and stop. If your assigner expects you to go to the reporting area and stop, then you go to the reporting area and stop. If you were trained to go to the reporting area and stop, then you go to the reporting area and stop. If you are trained at meetings and clinics to go to the reporting area and stop, then you go to the reporting area and stop.

If you're expected to do otherwise, then you do otherwise.

Why? Reasons? Sure, someone can tell you a nice, feel good, bedtime story that there's less chance of an error in reporting fouls if you go all the way to the reporting area and stop. Maybe, once upon a time, a sixth grade student scorekeeper in a middle school game, or an assistant football coach scorekeeper in a junior varsity game, or a retired biology teacher scorekeeper in a varsity game, made an error and a star player erroneously fouled out, thus losing the state championship, said player losing his chance at a college scholarship, possibly due to some sloppy reporting by an official, but regardless, the bottom line is one does what one is expected to do to be successful.

The reason why is unimportant, and possibly irrelevant, meeting expectations and becoming a successful official in your local area is important, of utmost importance.

In basketball officiating, that's real life.

Take the advice of Alfred, Lord Tennyson, the great nineteenth century basketball official, "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die".

https://youtu.be/mEtcHdDyEvo
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Aug 19, 2018 at 01:42pm.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I was taught by the book in that regard. I'm guessing that''s the standard way that IAABO cadets are taught. To this day, I stop in the reporting area, no matter whether I work IAABO games or not. Real-life, there is no reason other than personal preference for walking or stopping?
I think this is the part you seem to not get. Mechanics are often personal preferences. Someone suggests this should be done and they put it in a book to tell everyone they should do it that way. It does not mean there is not another way or a variation is a tragic event. Actually "walking and talking" can be good to speed up the process and get to the next situation quicker. But we have a reporting area and often people will not get there when they do not stop or try to report a basic foul. That is my experience, but not what you see asked for.

You are going to find many mechanics that have someone suggesting it should be done this specific way and others who will do something else thinking that way is more efficient. And many of those situations will never have an evaluator saying a word, not a single word either way. If I am acting as a clinician and I am talking to you about how you report fouls in that much detail, I am probably not finding much about your officiating to discuss. It does not mean I will not mention the mechanics you use, but it will not be an all-day focus unless I am clearly confused by your reporting process.

Peace
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 12:50pm
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Take It To The Bank ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You are going to find many mechanics that have someone suggesting it should be done this specific way ...
It depends on who that "someone" is? If that "someone" is an evaluator (or maybe an assigner) who will have a major impact on one's "movement up the ladder of success" in that local organization, then one should take it as more than a simple suggestion. Same thing if that "someone" is a local trainer (clinician) who is educating everyone in that local organization, expecting them all to do it that one, consistent, way (the same one, consistent way that the evaluators (assigner) will be observing and basing their evaluations on).

On my local board, mechanics are only a small part of one's evaluation by those who can have an impact one's assignments (number and level of games). Things like play calling, game management, and court coverage are much more important, but mechanics are still part of the equation, and they're usually the easiest forms of advice to follow. Some new officials may have difficulty calling a block/charge, or keeping coaches under control, but they can certainly stand where they have been taught to stand during a time out (which may include moving one's position to discuss a situation with one's partner, or walking over to the table to double check something, some flexibility can be a good thing).

On the other hand, if the trainers (clinicians), evaluators, and the assigner are not on the same page regarding mechanics, and the evaluation, and importance, of such, then things can become problematic. I don't work for such a disjointed, inconsistent, local organization (but I'm sure that they might exist somewhere).

Again, the usual caveat, "When in Rome ...". Some organizations may be a lot more flexible when it comes to mechanics, and the evaluation, and importance, of such, than others. That doesn't necessarily mean that one way is good, and one way is bad, they're just different.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Aug 19, 2018 at 01:45pm.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun Aug 19, 2018, 01:19pm
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Confusing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... unless I am clearly confused by your reporting process.
Good point. While some of us may have our own opinions, based on our own local customs, about good mechanics, and the evaluation, and importance, of such, we can all agree on what bad mechanics are.
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