2 person varsity crews this year

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

That’s a great way to look at it. I personally don’t enjoy lower level varsity basketball, or high school girls for that matter. I’d love to act as an independent contractor and not take games I don’t want. Unfortunately in our area it doesn’t work like that. We have one assignor who assigns for like 90 high schools in central and southern Iowa.

I understand, trust me I do. Obviously, officials are making a choice. And that choice is not to work at all. What does that get us? Now these actions are taken. And if the smaller school are going to 2 person, there are likely to be officials that are like me, like Rich and like some others that might say, "Forget this, I am staying home."

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I can think of about 3 schools that don’t use him and contract their own games. You can’t exactly turn back games and expect him to keep using you, no matter how desperate he is for people. If you want games in this area, you work what he gives you. As I mentioned, he does a great job of only putting you on a couple of those shitty games every season so you just kind of take your lumps. If you took your line of thinking in our area, you wouldn’t be doing much high school ball. I won’t do college ball because it’s too much time away from my family. I enjoy doing good high school ball and am fine recognizing that sometimes in life things aren’t perfect.

Well, where I live we have more than enough officials and games to work in basketball. I can decide who to work for, I can decide what level not to work. And most of all maybe this is why officials all over the country are losing officials. I know in some other sports there were assignors trying to make people feel they had to do things, and now they are losing numbers and having to scramble for officials. The point I am making is that we can act like we have no choices, but it appears when people decide not to work that sport anymore, they are making a choice. You just have to know who you are in this game.

Peace

[SC Official]

I always think the idea of "we're independent contractors" is a bunch of hogwash, something that's only true in form and little in substance. Of course, that largely depends on the state, but overall as a profession I believe that is the case. There are multiple feuds going on with low-level college assigners in my area, to the extent that some assigners are saying "do not work for x assigner or you will not work for me." That is the definition of not being an IC, and that's just one example. Of course, assigners are ICs, as well, and can pretty much use or not use an official for any reason they choose. Where the line is drawn is not something I know (not a lawyer).

With respect to this topic, I guess I consider myself lucky to be in a state like SC where all varsity games come out of Columbia. The booking office goes as far down the rating list as it has to in order to fill every varsity DH with 3-person crews, even if that means the #600 official (out of ~750 statewide) gets an assignment. Don't get me wrong, the way things are done here is antiquated and illogical, but it does prevent a shortage to the extent that we'd have to go to 2-person varsity DHs.

And I'm like Rich. I would quit before regularly working 2-person varsity, if we ever got to that point.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

And true independent contractors could say no to 2-person assignments without reprisal. Guessing that won't be the case for your group.

Yep. I've been in association ("district" in SC) meetings where we are told that working subvarsity games (99% 2-person) is "required" or else our rating will suffer (which affects varsity assignments and postseason). Declining or turning back games here results (or is supposed to result) in lost rating points.

You cannot force me to work when I block the date, and I don't have to give you an explanation for why I block a date. If it's because I don't want to leave my job or my family to work subvarsity basketball, that is my prerogative and not your business. Too many people don't understand that.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I always think the idea of "we're independent contractors" is a bunch of hogwash, something that's only true in form and little in substance.

When I say that I am speaking from a state perspective. No one can require me or any officials to do anything. I can even give back games that I choose to not work. Now will that have other consequences? Sure. But when you say I must work on a Saturday or a Friday at a certain time, you have no right to tell me to do anything for many reasons. It is our internal goals or expectations that we do things we might not want to do. We have to just own that, but if you refuse what are they going to do to you?

Even as a college official, no one tells me what to make available. They ask for a reason early what we can do. If we leave few dates available, then the consequence might be we may not get many games, but they cannot make you do anything in the end. n varsity, if we ever got to that point.

And I can tell you that as a multiple sports official, the schools better make some changes or they might not have officials at all for certain games. Part of the shortage was on the schools, not even the assignors. Right now football everyone moved to Friday when there used to be Saturday games a lot. And the schools do not want to have schools open on Saturday. Well if they do not change that, they will not have games at all because they will not have anyone to do their games. Move the nights and the times, they will have plenty of officials available. Just because you do what always worked is not going to help the situation.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When I say that I am speaking from a state perspective.

Right, and my comment wasn’t intended to be directed at you. In states like yours and Rich’s where each conference hires its own assigner, I’m sure there is much more of an independent contractor “vibe,” versus states like mine and surrounding which have much different assigning structures that are more restrictive but the powers-that-be still claim that we are “independent contractors.”

Not at all saying I want to be classified as an employee of an assigner or state association, just saying that in many states, officials are treated more like employees than ICs with respect to the letter of the law despite what state associations call them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

... due to a lack of officials in our state.

Our fall training class for new applicants has several openings. It's usually filled to capacity by mid-summer.

During the recession of 2008-09 we were turning away dozens of applicants that wanted to be officials.

[Nevadaref]

Most of CA uses 2-man on varsity games, including the big schools (between 2500 & 3000 kids), plus there is a shot clock.
It is not that difficult to work these contests and this is not bad basketball. The officials have to be in shape and run to obtain proper positions for plays.
I've worked both 2-man and 3-man varsity over the years and don't grasp the prima donna attitude of those who will only work 3-man. 2-man isn't that much different if you have two officials who can move.

[ilyazhito]

Maybe those officials are guys who want to work in the playoffs, where it is 3-man only, college officials who are used to working 3-man more than 2-man, or officials who sincerely believe that 3-man is a superior system than 2-man, and refuse to work 2-man, so that they don't compromise their play calling percentages. 3-man is simpler, but it requires a greater level of discipline than 2-person, so I would be more concerned about 2-person only officials (with exception to those such as BillyMac, who work in areas with limited regular season 3-person opportunities).

Nevadaref, is it specifically your area of California that mostly uses 2-man, or a statewide thing? AFAIK, the Desert Valley Basketball Officials Association, and quite a few of the Northern California associations use 3-man for regular season games, enough so that Greg Austin, the owner of the A Better Official YouTube channel and website, has to make some videos about 3-person officiating. Maybe 3-man is also widespread in Southern California as well. It's been a little more than 10 years since I lived in the Golden State, so I'm not up to speed with how things are done there.
Is Nevada mostly 2-man, a mix of 2 and 3-man, or all 3-man at the varsity level?

[Nevadaref]

Northern CA is mostly 2-man. Several leagues in the Bay Area use 3, but almost all other varsity games are 2-man, including Sacramento. I don't know much about SoCal, but can't imagine that there are enough officials to cover all the games with 3-man crews.

Nevada uses 3-man at the varsity level for the two largest classifications and 2-man for the varsity games at the smallest two classes.

[BillyMac]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love the physical and mental challenge of a two person game. I love to sweat, the more the better. I want to be able to wring the sweat out of my black undershirt after every single game. Every single game, regardless of the interscholastic level, the gender, the matchup, or my partner, excites me. I get an adrenaline rush from the challenge to try to work a perfect game. And this happens to me every single night that I'm out there.

That being said, I'm pretty sure that the game of basketball is much better officiated when there are three officials.

Starting from the highest levels of basketball, the professional level, and moving downward through college, high school varsity, high school junior varsity, high school freshman, middle school, travel teams, and recreation leagues, is there some point at which it's definite that three officials aren't needed, or should there be three officials for every basketball game except the one in my driveway?

When the day comes (and it will soon) when I physically can't work a two person game, it will be time from me to hang up my whistle, it won't be time to look for the help of two other officials to keep working. I will not (physically) be the weakest link. I love the sport too much (player, coach, official), it's been great to me, it deserves better. I can still observe and train novice officials when it's time for me to hang up my whistle. Or can just sell raffle tickets at the door of our monthly board meetings. Anything to help the cause.

Old soldiers never die; they just fade away. (General Douglas MacArthur, 1951)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I've worked both 2-man and 3-man varsity over the years and don't grasp the prima donna attitude of those who will only work 3-man. 2-man isn't that much different if you have two officials who can move.

I will put it plain and simple. When you know better, you do better. I simply do not have to work 2-person anymore and will not. The Chicago Public Schools hire 2 officials for many of their games. I simply will not work them unless it is a 3 person game. I do not have to and do not need to at this stage of my career. I will take a college game for much more pay and fewer people on purpose than work a 2 person varsity game. All the other conferences assign 3 person crews for all their varsity games. Call it what you wish. I also do not go a lot of things in officiating, because I do not have to. I know my worth and what I choose to do when I leave my house.

Someone told me a long time ago, "When you leave your house and you are dreading why you are leaving your house, it is time to change something." Well for me I will not work 2 person games or work men's leagues. And when I have to, then I will do something else. And obviously many people are choosing to do something else and we have many areas hurting for bodies.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Most of CA uses 2-man on varsity games, including the big schools (between 2500 & 3000 kids), plus there is a shot clock.

It is not that difficult to work these contests and this is not bad basketball. The officials have to be in shape and run to obtain proper positions for plays.

I've worked both 2-man and 3-man varsity over the years and don't grasp the prima donna attitude of those who will only work 3-man. 2-man isn't that much different if you have two officials who can move.

After 30 years of officiating, I will spend my time doing what I wish.

I feel I'm not as good going back and forth. So I will work 3. Only a few conferences don't hire 3 here and it's easy to simply not work those.


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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

And true independent contractors could say no to 2-person assignments without reprisal. Guessing that won't be the case for your group.


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The other side of the independent contractor arrangement is that the assignor doesn't have to offer you any games either. That is not unlike a plumber who refuses to all but one type of job. They certainly have that right, but eventually people quit calling them.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The other side of the independent contractor arrangement is that the assignor doesn't have to offer you any games either. That is not unlike a plumber who refuses to all but one type of job. They certainly have that right, but eventually people quit calling them.

Too many areas restrict assignments to few...or one person. That person has way too much power and is way more of an employer than one who contracts with officials.


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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The other side of the independent contractor arrangement is that the assignor doesn't have to offer you any games either. That is not unlike a plumber who refuses to all but one type of job. They certainly have that right, but eventually people quit calling them.

Well if you work for only one guy or association, that might be the case (Which sounds like the problem here for most. And we wonder why there is a shortage?). I have accepted games for this coming year for over 10 people and that is not everyone I could work for. So if one does not like the restrictions or expectations I set for myself, then someone else can use me, trust me on that one. One assignor does not give a darn what someone else expects to work in their conference, they hire who they want and makes them look good. And there are assignors because of their stubbornness get replaced all the time. Even the people I work for have their individual expectations and standards too. And some I will not work for because it is not worth it to me. I am willing to travel too, but not if you do not respect my concerns. And what is funny these are often never discussed, I just do not go anywhere for a lot of reasons.

Peace