Do we really need 4 person crews

[PeteBooth]

Most of us work in the standard 2 person crew with the exception of year end HS sectionals, regionals or various tournaments.

I do not know about you, but I need a refresher come tournament time when either we have 3 or 4 person crews and my question - does it really make a difference?

In a 2 person crew, the one major drawback is determining catch / no catch especially when BU is in B or C because the BU can only go so far. The only time the BU goes out is when he /she is in "A" and the ball is hit right down the first base line.

The other drawback is determining whether a ball is a HR or a 2 base award, especially on fields where there are no fences or they have those portible type fences where it's sometimes difficult to tell whether ball actually went OVER or UNDER the fence.

However, in a MLB game they almost always have 4 (unless someone gets injured or sick during the game) and in the playoffs they have 6, yet there have been some miscues. Most recently the Giants / Diamonbacks game. We had the infamous HR that wasn't in a Yanks / Orioles playoff game.

The point I'm getting at is: Is it really necessary to have a 4 / 6 person crew for amateur sports, when most of us are accustomed to 2? Does the game really suffer? In a 2 person crew we are always hustling and when we work in a 3 / 4 person crew sometimes confusion arises becasue we are not used to it or we get a little lazy becasue it's the other umps call.

Last year during the LLWS, they had 6 umpires on a 60ft. diamond (which IMO is just plain rediculous) and there was a gross miscue by the umpiring crew concerning the missed base at second.

I do not have any statistics, but it seems to me that there are just as many miscues in a 4 to 6 person crew as there are with just 2 of us.

Don't want to start another thread on this issue, but at least at the major league level, it's time for baseball to get in line with the 21st Century and use instant replay for detrmining Fair / Foul on Home-runs or spectator interference when a fan reaches into the field of play.

What's your take?

Pete Booth

[Mike M]

While I agree with your observations, less umpires for big games means it would years before I ever got a chance to work one

[GarthB]

Since our association went to three-man crews for the Legion season we have found:

1. Fewer controversial fair/foul calls.

2. Better outfield (catch/no catch) coverage. (One man always goes out with no runners on)

3. Better and fewer controversial calls on pick-off attempts at first.

4. Better views and enforcement of balks.

5. Fewer controversial calls on steals at second.

I definitely believe that three-man mechanics, provided that the crew undestands and performs their mechanics properly, is significantly superior to two-man.

We use four man at tournaments and play-offs. Again, I believe that properly executed, it is a superior mechanic, however, the increase in performance experienced with four-man over three-man is not as great as that of three-man over two-man.

GB

[brandda]

I worked a 4 man crew for the first time last night in the second base slot and it was really nice to never have to worry about being out of posiiton. Also, having outfield responsibility kept me active and in the game.

On the other hand, I would hate to have to do the third base position as that would be seriously dull. I think 3 man would probably give the same positioning advantage without the boredom of the third base slot.

[greymule]

No way do you need 6 umps on a small field. Little League must have done that just for show.

Replays are another story, and certainly worth consideration. But it seems to me that missed calls in football can be remedied far easier than in baseball, where a call that is made immediately can have repercussions throughout a play. They call a trap but it turns out it was a catch. Meanwhile, they threw a runner out. Maybe certain plays, like fair and foul home runs, would be OK, but what about safe and out at first? Why not have Honeywell devise a system of sensors that would be accurate to a zillionth of a second? Years ago, an electronic strike zone (adjusted for each batter) was used experimentally, and it was 100% consistent, but nobody liked it. (My guess is it called a perfectly rectangular zone, whereas the real-life zone is an oval, with a top lower than where they were setting their machine.)

Give each team three cracks at the replay? "Hey, that was a balk. We'll take one of or cracks now!"

Good food for thought, Pete.

[soonerfan]

GarthB, Amen. Pete, what Garth says answers your query pretty well. As far as the instant replay...no way. Why have umpires? Let the players govern themselves and if one disagrees, look at the replays and move on. ESPN has the K-Zone and the rest of TV scrutinizes any close call anyway so we already have replay, but it has no effect. Besides, the umps are right majority of the time anyway...coaches would like to say that about some of their players' defense. To err is human, baseball provides a lot of chances to err and we do. Take the game with all it's beauty, mystery and heart break. Umps are expected to be perfect from opening day and improve from there...just a tough job to do. JT

[ref5678]

On the replay side of things i would go along with home run or no home run (could have helped Richie Garcia out a little) and Fair/foul calls, but anything else and coaches and players would want to review a play every second, making a travasety of the game.

[soonerfan]

Originally posted by ref5678
On the replay side of things i would go along with home run or no home run (could have helped Richie Garcia out a little) and Fair/foul calls, but anything else and coaches and players would want to review a play every second, making a travasety of the game.

I can see having the replay for HR and fair/fould more so than anything...however...I do not like review of anykind in any sport. These are human played games judged by human eyes, players screw up and officials screw up, that's it. Player just miss a pitch, get that late jump, leave the ball in the zone, flinch on a ground ball or just release the ball to early. It goes on and on. Just my view. JT

[johnSandlin]

Absolutley we need 3-4 person umpiring crews for the playoffs and other various tournaments. The more eyes the better.