Dribble ...

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. If it isn't a dribble until the ball is again touched, a player starting a dribble wouldn't be able to pick up the pivot foot until the ball came back to the hand after pushing it to the floor (since the pivot foot must stay down until the dribble is started).

I was not referring to starting a dribble. You are.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

I was not referring to starting a dribble. You are.

Actually, you are too. Once it is started, it is a dribble and all of the relevant dribble restrictions apply. The ball does not, by rule, have to be touched again for it to be a dribble.. Howeover, many just wait, as you said, until the next touch to confirm it but that doesn't mean that is when it becomes a dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... many just wait, as you said, until the next touch to confirm it ...

Not waiting, in many cases, but probably not all, is paramount to just plain old ordinary guessing, and we as officials, try to avoid guessing as much as we possibly can.

Not many of us carry a crystal ball in our pocket with an extra whistle, and an extra needle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Once it is started, it is a dribble and all of the relevant dribble restrictions apply. The ball does not, by rule, have to be touched again for it to be a dribble.

It doesn't feel right, but by rule you may be correct, but by practical application, most times we should wait to confirm that it's not the start of a bounce pass.

This rule could be better worded, much better worded.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Actually, you are too. Once it is started, it is a dribble and all of the relevant dribble restrictions apply. The ball does not, by rule, have to be touched again for it to be a dribble.. Howeover, many just wait, as you said, until the next touch to confirm it but that doesn't mean that is when it becomes a dribble.

No, I am not. You are referring to starting a dribble initially. I am not referring to that at all but rather starting a dribble once a dribble has ended. One might think they are or at least should be the same however the case book clearly distinguishes the two.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

No, I am not. You are referring to starting a dribble initially. I am not referring to that at all but rather starting a dribble once a dribble has ended. One might think they are or at least should be the same however the case book clearly distinguishes the two.

If the initial dribble is started on the release, how is a subsequent (illegal) dribble not also started on the release?

Again, we may choose to wait for what happens next to make a call (or not), but that doesn't change the fact that the dribble actually began on the release.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If the initial dribble is started on the release, how is a subsequent (illegal) dribble not also started on the release?

Again, we may choose to wait for what happens next to make a call (or not), but that doesn't change the fact that the dribble actually began on the release.

100% correct.
We had this discussion on this forum about seven years ago. Camron and I were on the same side then too. The casebook has a play stating that it is a violation when the player releases the ball. That is the start of a dribble.
I'm shocked that Billy does not recall that long thread.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm shocked that Billy does not recall that long thread.

I definitely recall the thread. I don't recall a consensus, or conclusion, based on language from 4.15.1 SITUATION C.

Now, where are my keys?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The casebook has a play stating that it is a violation when the player releases the ball.

Is it 4.15.1 SITUATION C, or is there an additional casebook play? Another casebook play would be swell, said the Beaver to Wally.