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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 06:36pm
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Last to touch/first to touch

In a staff meeting for a camp, and was just told this is no longer a violation.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 06:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
In a staff meeting for a camp, and was just told this is no longer a violation.
No longer a violation when deflected by the defense right?

So basically you are saying they adopted the NCAA Men's rule right?

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 06:50pm
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Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 06:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.
Well that would be the NCAA Rule.

Now if you do not mind us asking. Who told you that or why are they so confident that is the rule? I think it is obvious, but I just want to know why you are convinced that is the actual interpretation since many here seemed to be convinced this was about just an interpretation?

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 07:40pm
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Into The Backcourt ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.
When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 07:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?
Who would have put it in the backcourt in your situation?

Peace
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"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)

Last edited by JRutledge; Thu Jun 07, 2018 at 08:51pm.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 10:13pm
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The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule . . . . . . . . . thus far.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 10:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule . . . . . . . . . thus far.
Sounds like the NCAA Rule to me.

Peace
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 10:57pm
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Two Different Situations ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Who would have put it in the backcourt in your situation?
With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation. In the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.

If the NFHS rules turns out to be the same as the NCAA rule, then I believe that it's a different story, and I'll leave it up to the college guys to answer.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 11:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation. In the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.
What is the first and the second situation?

Peace
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 11:07pm
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What's Different, If Anything, No Crystal Balls Please ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule ... thus far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Sounds like the NCAA Rule to me.
NCAA 9-12-4: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his backcourt (with
any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the front court while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.
(Exception: See Rule 9-12.5)

NCAA 9-12-5: A pass or any other loose ball in the front court that is deflected by
a defensive player, which causes the ball to go into the backcourt may be recovered by either team even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NFHS (as of June 8, 2018) 9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. EXCEPTION: Any player located in the backcourt may recover a ball deflected from the frontcourt by the defense
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 07, 2018 at 11:18pm.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 11:14pm
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Two Situations ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What is the first and the second situation?
1) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt?

2) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation.

With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.

If the NFHS rules turns out to be the same as the NCAA rule, then I believe that it's a different story, and I'll leave it up to the college guys to answer.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 07, 2018 at 11:16pm.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
1) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt?

2) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?
I do not see why it matters when the rule you quoted says first to touch after a teammate was the last to touch a ball before it goes in the backcourt, but the exception is if the defense deflected the ball. In other words if the defense did not deflect the ball, you have a violation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
NFHS (as of June 8, 2018) 9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. EXCEPTION: Any player located in the backcourt may recover a ball deflected from the frontcourt by the defense
What are we all missing and you are getting?

Peace
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Last edited by JRutledge; Fri Jun 08, 2018 at 12:01am.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 07, 2018, 11:33pm
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Simultaneously ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What are we all missing and you are getting?
Getting rid of that pesky interpretation where the defensive player in the frontcourt deflects the ball in the direction of the backcourt and an offensive player catches the airborne ball that never actually touches the backcourt (never really achieving backcourt status) while standing in the backcourt, thus simultaneously being the last to touch a ball with frontcourt status and the first to touch in the backcourt. Maybe the interpretation was correct by the most strict adherence to the rule language, but by the intent and purpose of the rule, most of us would never call it that way in a real game.

At this point in time, with all we've seen so far from the NFHS, it appears that the ball may not be recovered by either team even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

Of course, that can all change when the annual interpretations come out.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jun 07, 2018 at 11:50pm.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 08, 2018, 12:04am
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Well to me they would have to prove that is still the ruling. Otherwise, I do not think it applies. But as I said before, we will know when everything comes out. End of story.

Peace
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