Last to touch/first to touch

[JRutledge]

Freddy,

I will take your word for it. It was hard to tell and my first take on that video.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

We were just told, that if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it. I asked specifically about last to touch/first to touch and was told it was no longer a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We were just told, that if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it. I asked specifically about last to touch/first to touch and was told it was no longer a violation.

Key phrase, "defensive player". Does that mean that the defensive player was the last to touch the ball before the ball headed toward the backcourt?

Now go back and ask what happens if a defensive player, while in the frontcourt, deflects a ball that remains in the frontcourt and that loose ball then hits an offensive player, without gaining control, who now sends the loose ball, while still in team control, but not in player control, into the backcourt. Can anyone pick it up without a violation?

I'm more interested in the word, "offense", or lack of, as in even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt. That's the key as to whether, or not, the NFHS has fully switched to the NCAA rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

... if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it.

Ignoring the odd interpretation, if that's all the information we have (above), that's always been true, for at least the past four decades.

"Nothing to see here, move along folks".

Hopefully, the NFHS will clarify this soon. I now find myself leaning a little bit more toward JRutledge's interpretation of a full switch to the NCAA rule. Just leaning, and just a little bit more.

And I'm now taking all my bets off the table, I just want to be a spectator.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We were just told, that if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it. I asked specifically about last to touch/first to touch and was told it was no longer a violation.

I received similar info today as well.

If that is truly the case, they couldn't have done a worse job of updating the rule to reflect. that.

Originally Posted by OKREF

In a staff meeting for a camp, and was just told this is no longer a violation.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I received similar info today as well.

If that is truly the case, they couldn't have done a worse job of updating the rule to reflect. that.

Thing is, are the ppl telling you that stuff just assuming that's what the new rule change means, or are do they know for real.

My guess is they are assuming. If no one on this board knows for real, then no one probably knows the truth yet.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Thing is, are the ppl telling you that stuff just assuming that's what the new rule change means, or are do they know for real.

My guess is they are assuming. If no one on this board knows for real, then no one probably knows the truth yet.

Nothing definitive.

[BillyMac]

I was on record, based on all that's officially come out of the NFHS, that this was not a full change to the NCAA backcourt rule.

However, it now appears that some Forum members are receiving information from "above" that the full change is a go.

I wonder from how far up the ladder this information descends. Are these trainers/clinicians/camp observers/interpreters assuming based on the already released NFHS information, as many here on the Forum, including me, have done and debated, or are they really getting the information trickling down from way up the ladder?

The NFHS is not the CIA. There have to be a few reliable leaks from unnamed informed sources. Is that what some are getting?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... they couldn't have done a worse job of updating the rule to reflect that.

Agree. The released language only points to the overturning of the odd interpretation, not to a full change to the NCAA backcourt rule. If indeed, the change is to a full NCAA switch, why didn't they include the full NCAA language? Why didn't the NFHS include: even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

[JRutledge]

I agree the wording is not great, but not sure why we are again going over this and making it this complicated. This is basically the NCAA Rule. Why would you consider a ruling that was flawed in the first place? Again the exception is defense deflecting the ball. Keep it simple. The NF would have to prove to me they want to stick with something.

Not very hard for me, I am not considering any ruling this summer in my games. Calling it the way the NCAA rule states until otherwise stated.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. The released language only points to the overturning of the odd interpretation, not to a full change to the NCAA backcourt rule. If indeed, the change is to a full NCAA switch, why didn't they include the full NCAA language? Why didn't the NFHS include: even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

So, again, as I stated in the previous conversation, the NFHS is butchering a rule change/clarification.

Nothing in what the NFHS has released so far has stated that last-to-touch/first-to-touch is no longer a violation. I guess we are to assume they mean in a situation where the defense deflects the ball. They have only publish an exception to a rule that is not even an exception, it's an entirely different play, and that "exception" now allows an offensive player to catch a ball in flight while in the back court if the defense deflects it.

This why all your rhetorical questions to us (the Forum) on the subject are useless because the NFHS doesn't even know what it wants to do nor how to publicize it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

This why all your rhetorical questions to us (the Forum) on the subject are useless because the NFHS doesn't even know what it wants to do nor how to publicize it.

I agree totally. I just still think that this has little or nothing to do with one ruling. We will find out if the play is still in the casebook or there is another ruling that contradicts it or if it stays. But none of this is known until the literature comes out. I am still convinced this in practice is the NCAA Rule, but I it was as usual not implemented very well by the NF. Same thing they did with the Horsecollar tackle in football where they made a certain act illegal but forgot to word it so that it applies in all situations. The NF had to make changes to create the rule for about 3 more years after the change.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Ignoring the odd interpretation, if that's all the information we have (above), that's always been true, for at least the past four decades.

"Nothing to see here, move along folks".

Hopefully, the NFHS will clarify this soon. I now find myself leaning a little bit more toward JRutledge's interpretation of a full switch to the NCAA rule. Just leaning, and just a little bit more.

And I'm now taking all my bets off the table, I just want to be a spectator.

We were told.....If team A has possession of ball in the front court, the ball is deflected by B and team A is the last to touch in front court and ball goes into the back court anyone may retrieve the ball.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We were told.....If team A has possession of ball in the front court, the ball is deflected by B and team A is the last to touch in front court and ball goes into the back court anyone may retrieve the ball.

Which is what the NCAA rule is as of last season. Wish the NFHS would put out something that indicates they are moving in that same direction.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Which is what the NCAA rule is as of last season. Wish the NFHS would put out something that indicates they are moving in that same direction.

This may be our state association interpretation of a messy rule. I just know that the staff and officials at the camp were directed to not call last to touch/first to touch a violation.