Last to touch/first to touch

[OKREF]

Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.

Well that would be the NCAA Rule.

Now if you do not mind us asking. Who told you that or why are they so confident that is the rule? I think it is obvious, but I just want to know why you are convinced that is the actual interpretation since many here seemed to be convinced this was about just an interpretation?

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that would be the NCAA Rule.

Now if you do not mind us asking. Who told you that or why are they so confident that is the rule? I think it is obvious, but I just want to know why you are convinced that is the actual interpretation since many here seemed to be convinced this was about just an interpretation?

Peace

Camp director of our state association.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yes, when deflected by defense, anyone can retrieve the ball.

When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

Who would have put it in the backcourt in your situation?

Peace

[Freddy]

The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule . . . . . . . . . thus far.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule . . . . . . . . . thus far.

Sounds like the NCAA Rule to me.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

The NCAA-M rule isn't the NFHS rule ... thus far.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sounds like the NCAA Rule to me.

NCAA 9-12-4: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball in his backcourt (with
any part of his body, voluntarily or involuntarily) when the ball came from
the front court while that player’s team was in team control and that player or
his teammate was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.
(Exception: See Rule 9-12.5)

NCAA 9-12-5: A pass or any other loose ball in the front court that is deflected by
a defensive player, which causes the ball to go into the backcourt may be recovered by either team even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

NFHS (as of June 8, 2018) 9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. EXCEPTION: Any player located in the backcourt may recover a ball deflected from the frontcourt by the defense

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt?

2) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

I do not see why it matters when the rule you quoted says first to touch after a teammate was the last to touch a ball before it goes in the backcourt, but the exception is if the defense deflected the ball. In other words if the defense did not deflect the ball, you have a violation.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS (as of June 8, 2018) 9-9-1: A player shall not be the first to touch the ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt. EXCEPTION: Any player located in the backcourt may recover a ball deflected from the frontcourt by the defense

What are we all missing and you are getting?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Who would have put it in the backcourt in your situation?

With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation. In the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.

If the NFHS rules turns out to be the same as the NCAA rule, then I believe that it's a different story, and I'll leave it up to the college guys to answer.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation. In the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.

What is the first and the second situation?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What is the first and the second situation?

1) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt?

2) When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the first situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, no violation.

With the new NFHS rule announced, and only what we've seen so far, in the second situation, if an offensive player touches the ball in the backcourt, violation.

If the NFHS rules turns out to be the same as the NCAA rule, then I believe that it's a different story, and I'll leave it up to the college guys to answer.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When deflected by a frontcourt defensive player directly into the backcourt? Or when deflected by a frontcourt defensive player that then hits a frontcourt offensive player in the leg and then goes directly into the backcourt?

We were just told, that if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it. I asked specifically about last to touch/first to touch and was told it was no longer a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

We were just told, that if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it. I asked specifically about last to touch/first to touch and was told it was no longer a violation.

Key phrase, "defensive player". Does that mean that the defensive player was the last to touch the ball before the ball headed toward the backcourt?

Now go back and ask what happens if a defensive player, while in the frontcourt, deflects a ball that remains in the frontcourt and that loose ball then hits an offensive player, without gaining control, who now sends the loose ball, while still in team control, but not in player control, into the backcourt. Can anyone pick it up without a violation?

I'm more interested in the word, "offense", or lack of, as in even if the offense was the last to touch the ball before it went into the backcourt. That's the key as to whether, or not, the NFHS has fully switched to the NCAA rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

... if the defensive player deflects the ball and it goes into the back court anyone can retrieve it.

Ignoring the odd interpretation, if that's all the information we have (above), that's always been true, for at least the past four decades.

"Nothing to see here, move along folks".

Hopefully, the NFHS will clarify this soon. I now find myself leaning a little bit more toward JRutledge's interpretation of a full switch to the NCAA rule. Just leaning, and just a little bit more.

And I'm now taking all my bets off the table, I just want to be a spectator.