NYS HS Basketball Protest

[LRZ]

I just read on the umpire-empire site that the NYS HS association denied a protest filed after a clerical error caused a team to be charged with a sixth TO. Apparently, with the score tied and 8.3 seconds remaining, the other team hit FTs to win. The state body said it could not overturn a clerical mistake.

Any NYers with more information?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by LRZ

I just read on the umpire-empire site that the NYS HS association denied a protest filed after a clerical error caused a team to be charged with a sixth TO. Apparently, with the score tied and 8.3 seconds remaining, the other team hit FTs to win. The state body said it could not overturn a clerical mistake.

Any NYers with more information?

Are you saying that the team actually took its fifth time-out and was incorrectly charged a technical foul as if it were the sixth charged time-out?

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are you saying that the team actually took its fifth time-out and was incorrectly charged a technical foul as if it were the sixth charged time-out?

Yes, that is what happened. Here is the link:

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/h...ied/455785002/

[so cal lurker]

An earlier TO was improperly charged to them.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/high-...nac-1.17647082

[bob jenkins]

I feel bad for the team, but I am glad the state did not overturn the protest.

[ODog]

We definitely need some more info here.

When the officials were (erroneously) informed by the scorer that Lutheran had used its final timeout (at whatever point that was in the game), and subsequently relayed that information to the coach -- this key administrative step ... happened ... right?! -- shouldn't he have objected then and had this all sorted out at that point?

Did he call the TO with 8.3 seconds left knowing it would be an "excessive" timeout? It certainly doesn't seem like it.

Therefore, was there any TO-related communication between the officials and the coach prior to this scenario unfolding at the 8.3 mark?

[Paintguru]

I don't see how you don't go back and replay the last 8.3 seconds. I would feel less inclined to do so if, as ODog stated, the officials told the team he was out of timeouts, even though he wasn't. However, if he was told he had a timeout left (or even if no communication was given one way or another), used the timeout, and then was charged a T incorrectly because the scorer claimed they were out of timeouts, you HAVE to replay the end of that game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ODog

... was there any TO-related communication between the officials and the coach prior to this scenario unfolding at the 8.3 mark?

By rule, the table must inform the officials, and the officials must inform the head coach, when a team has used their last timeout.

Was the chain broken, and, if so, by whom?

The scorer shall: Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and
when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is
granted its final allotted charged time-out.

The officials shall conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Notifying the head coach when a team is granted its final allowable time-out.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post950647

[BktBallRef]

You don't replay it because the decision of the game officials is available. There are no protests under NFHS rules.

Scorer/timer errors happen fairly frequently. Where do you draw the line of replaying the game? 8.3 seconds? 1:08? 7:08? It makes no difference when it occurred, it happened and can't be undone.

[Raymond]

The book is supposed to annotate the time on the clock for each time-out. The officials should have gone down the list of times and somebody should have remembered granting one of those time-outs to the opposing team.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The book is supposed to annotate the time on the clock for each time-out. The officials should have gone down the list of times and somebody should have remembered granting one of those time-outs to the opposing team.

An "advanced" mechanic would be for the officials to remember the number of TOs left (and type) for each team. Start by having U1 track it for the home team, and U2 for the visitors. Communicate with each other (and be sure the scoreboard is correct) at each TO.

This also lets you stop asking the coach "30- or 60-? " when the team is out of one or the other.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

An "advanced" mechanic would be for the officials to remember the number of TOs left (and type) for each team. Start by having U1 track it for the home team, and U2 for the visitors. Communicate with each other (and be sure the scoreboard is correct) at each TO.

This also lets you stop asking the coach "30- or 60-? " when the team is out of one or the other.

It's something I already do in my head. But if you suggest such to a lot of officials you hear whining about how it's not their job and that's what we have a table for.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Paintguru

I don't see how you don't go back and replay the last 8.3 seconds. I would feel less inclined to do so if, as ODog stated, the officials told the team he was out of timeouts, even though he wasn't. However, if he was told he had a timeout left (or even if no communication was given one way or another), used the timeout, and then was charged a T incorrectly because the scorer claimed they were out of timeouts, you HAVE to replay the end of that game.

Well, you HAVE to follow the institutional guidelines for protests. Unless NY goes against standard NFHS rules that there are no protests, there is nothing to do. And if they do have rules permitting protests, the rules would typically define the scope of what can be protested.

While the school paints itself as the victim here, it is not wholly without blame. even if the refs never communicated that they had used their last timeout, and even if the scoreboard was showing the wrong number (though maybe the scoreboard didn't show at all)--why wasn't their book checking with the official book? Heck, I did that when I was a teenager keeping the book for junior high games. Cross checking fouls and TOs with the official book is pretty basic. Yet we have another high profile case in which the "adults" just play the "we got screwed" card instead of noting where they could have and should have done better.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's something I already do in my head. But if you suggest such to a lot of officials you hear whining about how it's not their job and that's what we have a table for.

I like to know how many TOs each team has even though I’m not good enough to remember sometimes.

However, I never inform the coach if he/she has anything other than zero left. I work with some officials who will tell the coach late in the game if he has one, two, even three timeouts left. Why? What if the table was wrong and you tell the coach he has one left when really he had none? Now the rules require you to assess a T.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I like to know how many TOs each team has even though I’m not good enough to remember sometimes.

However, I never inform the coach if he/she has anything other than zero left. I work with some officials who will tell the coach late in the game if he has one, two, even three timeouts left. Why? What if the table was wrong and you tell the coach he has one left when really he had none? Now the rules require you to assess a T.

Agreed.