NYS HS Basketball Protest

[Paintguru]

I don't see how you don't go back and replay the last 8.3 seconds. I would feel less inclined to do so if, as ODog stated, the officials told the team he was out of timeouts, even though he wasn't. However, if he was told he had a timeout left (or even if no communication was given one way or another), used the timeout, and then was charged a T incorrectly because the scorer claimed they were out of timeouts, you HAVE to replay the end of that game.

[BktBallRef]

You don't replay it because the decision of the game officials is available. There are no protests under NFHS rules.

Scorer/timer errors happen fairly frequently. Where do you draw the line of replaying the game? 8.3 seconds? 1:08? 7:08? It makes no difference when it occurred, it happened and can't be undone.

[Raymond]

The book is supposed to annotate the time on the clock for each time-out. The officials should have gone down the list of times and somebody should have remembered granting one of those time-outs to the opposing team.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The book is supposed to annotate the time on the clock for each time-out. The officials should have gone down the list of times and somebody should have remembered granting one of those time-outs to the opposing team.

An "advanced" mechanic would be for the officials to remember the number of TOs left (and type) for each team. Start by having U1 track it for the home team, and U2 for the visitors. Communicate with each other (and be sure the scoreboard is correct) at each TO.

This also lets you stop asking the coach "30- or 60-? " when the team is out of one or the other.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

An "advanced" mechanic would be for the officials to remember the number of TOs left (and type) for each team. Start by having U1 track it for the home team, and U2 for the visitors. Communicate with each other (and be sure the scoreboard is correct) at each TO.

This also lets you stop asking the coach "30- or 60-? " when the team is out of one or the other.

It's something I already do in my head. But if you suggest such to a lot of officials you hear whining about how it's not their job and that's what we have a table for.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's something I already do in my head. But if you suggest such to a lot of officials you hear whining about how it's not their job and that's what we have a table for.

I like to know how many TOs each team has even though I’m not good enough to remember sometimes.

However, I never inform the coach if he/she has anything other than zero left. I work with some officials who will tell the coach late in the game if he has one, two, even three timeouts left. Why? What if the table was wrong and you tell the coach he has one left when really he had none? Now the rules require you to assess a T.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I like to know how many TOs each team has even though I’m not good enough to remember sometimes.

However, I never inform the coach if he/she has anything other than zero left. I work with some officials who will tell the coach late in the game if he has one, two, even three timeouts left. Why? What if the table was wrong and you tell the coach he has one left when really he had none? Now the rules require you to assess a T.

Agreed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I never inform the coach if he/she has anything other than zero left. I work with some officials who will tell the coach late in the game if he has one, two, even three timeouts left. What if the table was wrong and you tell the coach he has one left when really he had none?

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Coach, you have one timeout left", is a courtesy often extended by officials to coaches, when, by rule, officials should only be notifying head coaches when their team has been granted its final allowable timeout. If there is any miscommunication, or mistake, involving the table crew reporting remaining timeouts, then the officials, by rule, need to stay out of the conversation. Let the coaches, and table crew, communicate about remaining timeouts, other than when a team has been granted its final allowable timeout, which by rule, is required to be reported to the coach by the officials.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Paintguru

I don't see how you don't go back and replay the last 8.3 seconds. I would feel less inclined to do so if, as ODog stated, the officials told the team he was out of timeouts, even though he wasn't. However, if he was told he had a timeout left (or even if no communication was given one way or another), used the timeout, and then was charged a T incorrectly because the scorer claimed they were out of timeouts, you HAVE to replay the end of that game.

Well, you HAVE to follow the institutional guidelines for protests. Unless NY goes against standard NFHS rules that there are no protests, there is nothing to do. And if they do have rules permitting protests, the rules would typically define the scope of what can be protested.

While the school paints itself as the victim here, it is not wholly without blame. even if the refs never communicated that they had used their last timeout, and even if the scoreboard was showing the wrong number (though maybe the scoreboard didn't show at all)--why wasn't their book checking with the official book? Heck, I did that when I was a teenager keeping the book for junior high games. Cross checking fouls and TOs with the official book is pretty basic. Yet we have another high profile case in which the "adults" just play the "we got screwed" card instead of noting where they could have and should have done better.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

... why wasn't their book checking with the official book? Heck, I did that when I was a teenager keeping the book for junior high games. Cross checking fouls and TOs with the official book is pretty basic.

Agree, but this was a state tournament semifinal game. Here in Connecticut tournament games from the quarterfinals up are played at neutral sites. I'm not sure who is allowed to sit at the table, but maybe there was a neutral scorekeeper and scorekeepers from each team weren't allowed at the table.

I would like more information before I throw anybody under the bus.

Were team scorekeepers allowed at the table? Were the officials informed by the table that the coach had used his last timeout? Was the head coach informed that he had used his last timeout? Did he question this after being informed? After charging the technical foul did the officials double check the scorebook(s) for errors?

[Paintguru]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree, but this was a state tournament semifinal game.

Even worse. "We can't even run our own tournament correctly, but if we screw up....sucks to be you!!!"

Further reflection does make me think that for how often basketball rules are misapplied, it would be hard to allow protests to occur in all such cases. However, for this to occur at a state run tournament?! Come on man!

[ODog]

So let's assume there was (somehow) no communication between scorer and officials, which is an indictment of all four of them.

When the officials were informed, "Hey, he didn't have any timeouts left when he just called that one," didn't the alarm bells at least go off then?!

Wait ... WHAT?! You never told us he'd used his final timeout. You sure?! Let me have a look at the book.

And I'm assuming the coach is rightfully losing his mind at this point, lending even more urgency to the "let's have a look at the book" situation.

Perhaps they did "double check" at this point, but since the scorer had it documented wrong, there was nothing doing. I would just like to know how it all played out.

You have to smash through a lot of roadblocks/checkpoints to get to this point.