Wha' happens............

[zebra44]

This happened in one of my games last week. Girl gains control in her frontcourt while sitting down and throws a pass to teammate in backcourt.Just before ball reaches teammate, partner blows whistle "anticipating" over and back call. Teammate does not see pass coming and does not touch it. It goes out of bounds on endline. What did the inadvertant whistle do to the play? Where do we take it out?

[mick]

Originally posted by zebra44
This happened in one of my games last week. Girl gains control in her frontcourt while sitting down and throws a pass to teammate in backcourt.Just before ball reaches teammate, partner blows whistle "anticipating" over and back call. Teammate does not see pass coming and does not touch it. It goes out of bounds on endline. What did the inadvertant whistle do to the play? Where do we take it out?

High School rules seem to say:
Whistle made the ball dead.
Team control ends on a dead ball.
No inadveratent whistle rule.
Use the arrow.

College Rules seem to say:
Team control ends on whistle, but ...
...specifically says give it back to team in control before the whistle. 7-19

For me either way works, because at the time of the whistle we don't know what the ball will do, until it has done it.

Although the right thing to do seems to be to award a throw-in to the defense, I don't think we can do it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by zebra44
This happened in one of my games last week. Girl gains control in her frontcourt while sitting down and throws a pass to teammate in backcourt.Just before ball reaches teammate, partner blows whistle "anticipating" over and back call. Teammate does not see pass coming and does not touch it. It goes out of bounds on endline. What did the inadvertant whistle do to the play? Where do we take it out?

In high school,the play is dead immediately when the whistle blows.Team A had team control when the whistle went,so they will get a throw-in at the closest OOB spot to where the ball was when the whistle blew.

Unfortunately,that's the book call,as per casebook play 2.11.10SitC(b). All you can do is admit that you screwed up-to both head coaches at the same time,preferably- explain the rule,and get the ball back into play as soon as possible.And play deaf for a while.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Unfortunately,that's the book call,as per casebook play 2.11.10SitC(b). All you can do is admit that you screwed up-to both head coaches at the same time,preferably- explain the rule,and get the ball back into play as soon as possible.And play deaf for a while....

...and do the rest of the game in shame and ignominy. At least, that explanation shut up a scorekeeper once, who thought I got off too lightly.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

...and do the rest of the game in shame and ignominy. At least, that explanation shut up a scorekeeper once, who thought I got off too lightly.

Juulie,I've got a thick skin and I've never been noted for having rabbit ears,but if a scorer ever started to comment on the officiating to me-whether it was about me or my partners-well,I think that it might just be a very short speech by him.Criticizing us isn't part of their job description.I'd shut 'em up in a huury too,but maybe in a different way that you did.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Juulie,I've got a thick skin and I've never been noted for having rabbit ears,but if a scorer ever started to comment on the officiating to me-whether it was about me or my partners-well,I think that it might just be a very short speech by him.Criticizing us isn't part of their job description.I'd shut 'em up in a huury too,but maybe in a different way that you did.

It started with her asking what the call was, and then why. When I explained, she said, "You mean you make a mistake, but we suffer for it?" I said "Yes, you suffer, and so do I." She looked kind of blank, and I said, "I have to work the rest of the game in shame and ignominy." She got this sort of deer-in-the-headlights look in her eye and said, "Wow!" I didn't hear another peep out of her. I have no idea what she thought "ignominy" meant.

[Jurassic Referee]

Sounds like you handled that well.Probably better than I would have,come to think of it. I might have pi$$ed the scorer off hollering at her; and probably needlessly,because the same point could have been gotten across a better way- your's.

[just another ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

I have no idea what she thought "ignominy" meant.

Everybody knows an ignominy is one of them little houses made out of snow where eskimos live, but I didn't think the ceiling was high enough to play basketball.

[dblref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

It started with her asking what the call was, and then why. When I explained, she said, "You mean you make a mistake, but we suffer for it?" I said "Yes, you suffer, and so do I." She looked kind of blank, and I said, "I have to work the rest of the game in shame and ignominy." She got this sort of deer-in-the-headlights look in her eye and said, "Wow!" I didn't hear another peep out of her. I have no idea what she thought "ignominy" meant.

You seemed to have handled the situation well, but just curious why you were explaining the call to the scorer. I can see explaining it to the coach(es), but not the scorer. I don't see where that is part of their duties.

[Nevadaref]

You left out the part of the rule that says your partner has to buy all the drinks after the game!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by dblref
It started with her asking what the call was, and then why. When I explained, she said, "You mean you make a mistake, but we suffer for it?" I said "Yes, you suffer, and so do I." She looked kind of blank, and I said, "I have to work the rest of the game in shame and ignominy." She got this sort of deer-in-the-headlights look in her eye and said, "Wow!" I didn't hear another peep out of her. I have no idea what she thought "ignominy" meant.

You seemed to have handled the situation well, but just curious why you were explaining the call to the scorer. I can see explaining it to the coach(es), but not the scorer. I don't see where that is part of their duties.
[/B][/QUOTE] I always think if you can get along well with the scorer, it makes the game go better. Especially at the lower levels, which I do a lot of. She asked politely, I answered politely. It's been working well. Also, I think it's good for folks in general to understand that refs make mistakes, and that we don't just shrug it off, and that we try to do better next time; BUT, we are still human beings and deserve to be treated with respect. If I treat others that way, and myself, perhaps she'll pick up a little of it. There's just not enough forgiveness in the world.