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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 21, 2018, 11:25pm
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....and if the coach wants to argue how many steps a player gets, its just easier to walk away knowing that you're talking about a pivot foot and be able to say, "you're arguing a rule that doesn't exist."
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 09:20am
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In blowouts, I'll say "time and score, Coach" when explaining why I passed on a foul on the team getting blown out. It's really hard for the winning coach to argue with that one.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 09:37am
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My go to phrase (most of the time - gotta be careful with some coaches) in situations where the coach is fired up about a travel/no travel is, "Coach, which foot did you have as pivot?".

99.999% of the time in my experience.......crickets.

Movin' on!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree.

Also, when confronted with a coach questioning a travel/nontravel call, be sure to identify the pivot foot (left, or right (best guess if you have to)) and what that pivot foot did, or didn't do. This will usually disarm a coach because they usually want to talk about the number of steps, which, of course, as we all know (but they don't) has very little to do with a travel call.

"Coach. His right foot was the pivot foot and it never returned to the floor before the shot was released".

"Coach. Her left foot was the pivot foot and after being lifted it touched the floor before she released the pass".

"Coach. His right foot was his pivot foot and he lifted it off the floor before releasing the ball to start a dribble".


Coaches want to talk about the number of steps so when you come back at them talking about which foot was the pivot foot and what that foot did, or didn't do, it confuses them for a second, they figure that you know what your talking about, and they shut up, or you're long gone up the court.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 09:56am
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I try to use rule book terminology as much as I can when appropriate, but I used "displacement" this year when a player cleared out a kid with his butt/hips on a rebound. The coach acted like that was the most ridiculous term anyone could use. I even said "Boxing out is okay, displacing someone and moving them isn't". Oh well, not my problem he doesn't get it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 10:20am
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I had a fan in the stands last year who apparently had just learned the word "displacement"... because he yelled it at us every time his daughter had the ball, even when there was no one within 10 feet of her.

Anyway, back on topic, I find this useful for someone who is very close to, but not over, the line on unsportsmanlike issues:
"Don't make me have to make a decision, because you might not like the decision I make"
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 10:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
In blowouts, I'll say "time and score, Coach" when explaining why I passed on a foul on the team getting blown out. It's really hard for the winning coach to argue with that one.
I personally tell my partners to avoid this type of thinking and attitude for a few reasons.

1. With the amount of video available to teams, plays in which you are speaking of can easily be submitted to assignors or state organizations. When or if a play like that is submitted to your assignor, he/she is not going to look at the play and say well it was a foul but the score didn't warrant it. They may not even be able to tell the score/ game situation with just a clip submitted. They will simple say my official missed that play(s), possibly without you ever knowing the play was submitted.

2. Most often when coaches are ahead like that they aren't totally concerned with the passing of the foul but the risk of someone getting hurt. If you pass on a foul, the offending team might do that action again, or worse commit something more violent or flagrant. I think you should be aware of the precedent you are setting for the kids in these situations.

3. Sometimes we say don't miss anything on team XXX (winning team). While I generally agree with this it must be paired with don't make anything up. When a player makes a good or legal defensive play and we whistle them for a foul they believe that they have done something wrong. There are more games to be played and hopefully they are always learning and shouldn't try to correct/change legal plays.

My .02
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 02:00pm
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My responses can be plotted on a graph where one axis is my mood and the other axis the a-hole quotient of the coach.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 02:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
In blowouts, I'll say "time and score, Coach" when explaining why I passed on a foul on the team getting blown out. It's really hard for the winning coach to argue with that one.
I never would recommend saying this and if my partner did he's on his own. The winning coach doesn't have to argue. We just have to officiate. Although the levels of "advantage/disadvantage" might get adjustments during the game a foul is a foul and I would never say what you said.

You might as well just say "I dont want to be here and just want to go home."
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 02:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I never would recommend saying this and if my partner did he's on his own. The winning coach doesn't have to argue. We just have to officiate. Although the levels of "advantage/disadvantage" might get adjustments during the game a foul is a foul and I would never say what you said.

You might as well just say "I dont want to be here and just want to go home."
I've heard NBA refs put it as the grey area being adjusted. An obvious foul is still a foul. But plays that require judgment and decision-making, that 50/50 line moves to expand the grey area.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 03:27pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I've heard NBA refs put it as the grey area being adjusted. An obvious foul is still a foul. But plays that require judgment and decision-making, that 50/50 line moves to expand the grey area.
Most coaches understand and recognize this. That's why I'm comfortable saying it the way I say it.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I never would recommend saying this and if my partner did he's on his own. The winning coach doesn't have to argue. We just have to officiate. Although the levels of "advantage/disadvantage" might get adjustments during the game a foul is a foul and I would never say what you said.

You might as well just say "I dont want to be here and just want to go home."
I would never say this either. It might be a reality to why I call a foul in some small situations, but I would not admit that to a coach. For example, if a team is getting pounded and they have a marginal contact take place, I might give them the foul if the score is clearly not going to change in any drastic way if I call a foul. I would never say this or suggest this to a coach.

Peace
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 03:40pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
My responses can be plotted on a graph where one axis is my mood and the other axis the a-hole quotient of the coach.
Where is the like button?

Peace
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 03:42pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Where is the like button?

Peace
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 03:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I would never say this either. It might be a reality to why I call a foul in some small situations, but I would not admit that to a coach. For example, if a team is getting pounded and they have a marginal contact take place, I might give them the foul if the score is clearly not going to change in any drastic way if I call a foul. I would never say this or suggest this to a coach.

Peace
To clarify, I never say this after blowing my whistle. Only after choosing not to.

Subtle but important difference in my opinion.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 22, 2018, 04:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedAndWhiteRef View Post
To clarify, I never say this after blowing my whistle. Only after choosing not to.

Subtle but important difference in my opinion.
It's both the same. It's a choice you made that effects the game. It's just my opinion, but you can do you. I wouldn't suggest this is all I'm saying to any official, and mind you I say some stuff to coaches that a lot of officials are scared to say for whatever reason. I just take a more blunt approach to jerk coaches.
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