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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrStBballRef View Post
In the first quarter I issued a delay of game to the home team for grabbing the ball after a basket, walking 3-4 steps, turning around and then rolling it back to the visiting team. Easy call.

For whatever reason the visiting team was fixated on the delay of game call in general for rest of the game.

In the 3Q I was administering a throw in right beside home team's bench. Visiting player is reaching over the line and before I give the ball to the home team I step in and caution him to not reach over the line. He takes a couple of steps back, but then proceeds to reach over the line after I bounced the ball to the thrower. I blow the whistle for the DOG warning. Visiting team coach then yells loud enough for the entire gym to hear "Come on man let them play basketball!!" Blow my whistle and administer the bench warning.

One of his players earns a T from me for clapping at me after I blow a foul on his teammate in the 4Q. Easy call.

What earned the coaches T was with about a minute left, white team had just scored. Home team player was in the air as the ball was coming through the net and as he was heading down the ball bounced up, hit him in the chest and rolled out of bounds towards the baseline. Player couldn't avoid hitting the ball after it went through etc...definitely not an DOG.

Coach asks as I'm running by, going into the C position, why it wasn't a DOG (he had asked for the DOG a couple times prior to this) and I explain it as he didn't intentionally hit it and therefore it wasn't a penalty. Coach then says to me "Ahh you don't know what it is!" Emphasis added for the tone in which I heard it.
Thanks for the info! I would have handled it the same way you did. I'm not a fan of ignoring the coaches statement at the end. They need to learn they don't get free shots at us, and the only way to do that is calling the T. I understand the position of your Referee, but that's an easy one IMO. What we permit, we promote.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 11:38am
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I can only speak for myself and the way I would have handled it...I would have looked at the Coach and replied "Well one of us certainly doesn't understand that rule!" and moved on down the court...

But that's just me and the reputation I built over 25+ years in the area.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 01:12pm
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There is a skill and lessons to be learned when learning to win and similar in learning how to lose. When we allow bad behavior to happen just because a team is losing, how is that beneficial to anyone involved in that game. What is it teaching the players, the fans, anyone? If the V coach said enough in your mind to earn a T then give it, especially in a game that is already virtually decided.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 03:51pm
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If it’s T worthy, hit it! Would anyone ignore it after the game if the coach approached you and cussed you bc they lost? It shouldn’t matter time and score. Coach needs to understand he doesn’t need to act that way.


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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 09:50pm
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There is a guy I work with in our association, who never likes to give Ts or even Intentional Fouls for that matter. My theory is that he's worried about his "rating." A few weeks ago, I worked him in a game where we gave a Coach's Warning. After the game, he said to me, "Well I am glad you didn't whack him at the end of the game when he yelled at you for that call." I said, "why's that?" "Well it would have been just pouring salt in the wound and we didn't need to hurt ourselves out there."

Maybe your R was truly giving you some advice or maybe he had his own motivations.

Like it or not, if you made that call on the court, you had your reasons. I like that old adage, "you'll remember the T you didn't give." Don't overthink this one.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 10:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post
There is a guy I work with in our association, who never likes to give Ts or even Intentional Fouls for that matter. My theory is that he's worried about his "rating." A few weeks ago, I worked him in a game where we gave a Coach's Warning. After the game, he said to me, "Well I am glad you didn't whack him at the end of the game when he yelled at you for that call." I said, "why's that?" "Well it would have been just pouring salt in the wound and we didn't need to hurt ourselves out there."
You must live in South Dakota.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 12:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post
...
Maybe your R was truly giving you some advice or maybe he had his own motivations ...
Good point. Our assignor sent a memo just this week saying he wants to be informed of all technicals (player or coach). Regardless of who calls them, he wants the reports to be issued by the Referee.

In some discussions with fellow officials, things like "that's why I never call any" came up, which is an unfortunate side effect. So maybe the R in the OP or the R in packersowner's post were motivated to let unsporting behavior slide by not wanting to have to explain anything to anyone?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 12:35am
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I don't get overly wrapped around the axle about Ts. I don't believe they're just another foul but we have to draw a line and he crossed yours. The fact that you had warned him and he continued to harp about this very topic a couple more times tells me this was justified.

For me personally, it depends on how I take that comment. I very well might have just laughed at him and kept running. Hard for me to say not being there.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 08:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
In some discussions with fellow officials, things like "that's why I never call any" came up, which is an unfortunate side effect.
Sometimes I think automatic suspension rules foster this kind of thinking too.

"I didn't want to give him a second T. What he said was worse than what he said to get the first, but it wasn't enough to deserve two additional games."
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 09:28am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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It is situational. I had one game where I passed on a late T (my assigner was observing and said we did the right thing), another where I did not. As I said, it depends.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 10:03am
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I called 3 technical fouls in each of the last 2 seasons.

(I have none this year, but I've only worked 13 games due to a knee injury.)

In each of those seasons, one of those technicals were with under 10 seconds left on the clock. I do not believe in letting coaches have free shots, in general.

Yes, there are exceptions, but don't take your team losing out on me.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2018, 10:10am
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As others have said its all situational/contextual and HTBT to offer a real view on what any of us would have done.

I will say this though. Sometimes a T is the best tool. Sometimes ignoring comments and letting the coach look like an azz by himself is the best tool, sometimes a comment back subtly and sternly letting the coach know how you will and wont be addressed is the best tool.

In the situation you described I would not have T'd the coach for that comment. Which isnt to suggest your T was unwarranted. Just not how I would have handled it.

I do sometimes take time and score into consideration when calling some Ts. Generally, I will pass on a T that I may have otherwise had, to a coach getting blown out late in the game.

For me, I really don't care about rubbing salt in the wound as much as I just don't think it does anything for the game. And sometimes the losing coach is just trying to further a victim narrative and actually want a T.

I find that there is often more strength shown in ignoring a lot of that and the coach quickly goes back to sulking about how poor his players and coaching have been that night.

Last edited by VaTerp; Tue Feb 13, 2018 at 10:12am.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 14, 2018, 12:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Good point. Our assignor sent a memo just this week saying he wants to be informed of all technicals (player or coach). Regardless of who calls them, he wants the reports to be issued by the Referee.

In some discussions with fellow officials, things like "that's why I never call any" came up, which is an unfortunate side effect. So maybe the R in the OP or the R in packersowner's post were motivated to let unsporting behavior slide by not wanting to have to explain anything to anyone?
We have to report all T's to our assignors, but its usually the person who called it. Our assignor wants this done for preventative purposes. He doesn't want a narrative or opinions about it. Something like:

"Technical on White #45, unsportsmanlike. Taunting opponent after a dunk"

That way if he gets a call the next day, he at least, is in the know. I can't recall a single technical in my career where I have been second guessed by the assignor. He might not always agree based on his own view of the world, but he has always stood behind us.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 14, 2018, 03:18pm
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I really appreciate the topic and all the thoughts.

T's are not fun. The book helps us with some pretty obvious ones.

I have had a lot tell me to give a sarcastic remark back at him. Also do not like how people are behaving nationally at games and sending a message is also good.

In the end I think we all get better at finding that grey area and dishing out T's that feel good. Always those who are too black and white.

Thanks for all the opinions and stories. It helps me with my line and I get more comfortable every day with the insights I get here. Wish we had more people who knew how awesome this site is.
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