Video request: Xavier beats Creighton on final drive/foul

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Was hoping this would get posted. I went to Creighton so am a fan and not entitled to give an opinion on these plays.

I don't think that's true at all -- as long as you recognize your bias(es), and provide rules-based reasons for your responses

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't think that's true at all -- as long as you recognize your bias(es), and provide rules-based reasons for your responses

Well with the disclaimer I will give my opinion:

1. I personally dislike the notion of if the foul on the 3 point shot is a foul then the final one is a foul also. With the amount of video available to officials/assignors/interpreters every play has to be refereed individually.

2. IMO white #4 establishes legal guarding position facing the defender and moves backward. The black player initiates the contact with white #4.

3. In somewhat contrast to my first point, like plays do have to be refereed consistently throughout the game. Throughout the course of the game I thought that there were plays well officiated in regards to LGP and verticality. There were instances were contact took place with a defender in LGP and this was deemed a charge or incidental.

4. Evon Burroughs is a great official with the best look at the play and it is difficult/impossible to definitely overrule him here.

[bucky]

Play 3: Clearly not a foul on 32. I can see the foul on 4 as being correct. What irritated me the most was the L's position. A vast majority of plays occur on the right side and once the dribbler turned in the BC to come down the right, he should have closed IMO. Otherwise, he is looking through multiple bodies. With the way the play actually went, L should not have had a whistle and trusted C's position/look. If L would have done that, then I bet we are not even talking about this play.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Do D1 guys talk about locking down your position with that little time left? So as to avoid a missed rotation? I'm wondering if that's the reason he stayed on the other side of the paint.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Do D1 guys talk about locking down your position with that little time left? So as to avoid a missed rotation? I'm wondering if that's the reason he stayed on the other side of the paint.

On a last second shot, there is no rotation to miss. Guys talk about getting wherever you need to get to referee the last shot.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Do D1 guys talk about locking down your position with that little time left? So as to avoid a missed rotation? I'm wondering if that's the reason he stayed on the other side of the paint.

This whole concept of locking down was a real fad around here for a while -- but we've eliminated it entirely from our conversation. The L goes where he needs to go to officiate and we adjust accordingly.

I'd say he pinched rather than come across because there's this effect that happens if you try to officiate a drive mid-rotation -- the whole thing passes in front of you and straight-lines you at the most important moment. If you can't get over and receive the play, step in to the lane to where you need to go to get it as best you can.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bucky

Play 3: Clearly not a foul on 32. I can see the foul on 4 as being correct. What irritated me the most was the L's position. A vast majority of plays occur on the right side and once the dribbler turned in the BC to come down the right, he should have closed IMO. Otherwise, he is looking through multiple bodies. With the way the play actually went, L should not have had a whistle and trusted C's position/look. If L would have done that, then I bet we are not even talking about this play.

For reference the call was made on white #4.

[Blindolbat]

#1 - Travel, excellent get.
#2 - It's a foul. On the off arm, the balls already away, the guy fell like he got shot with a rifle, I get that, but it's still a foul
#3 - I really like the foul on #4. His body contact funneled the offensive player right into a defender. The question of consistency came up earlier in the thread to which I can't comment, but seeing only this play, foul.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

For reference the call was made on white #4.

OK ,good. Thanks for clarification. I simply could not see on whom the foul was called. Now, given that #4 actually committed the foul, C should have just called it. I do not like L calling it on #4 as it is too straightlined. Whateves...

[ballgame99]

my $.02 :

1. that seems like a ticky tac travel but was technically right I guess.

2. I don't like that call but I don't hate it. Is this one that would have been called in the 1st quarter? I would say no, but this official had the best angle in the house and he did touch the off arm.

3. #4 fouled him. While I think the call was right, I do not like the L's position, that play was coming up the C side of the court the whole way, seems like L should have already turned that corner by the time the contact happened.

Great finish!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

my $.02 :

1. that seems like a ticky tac travel but was technically right I guess.
...

Great finish!

It may be a "ticky-tack" travel call, but if you don't call it then you have to call an RA block on the defender. Is that the right thing to do, ignore a travel and call the subsequent block?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

my $.02 :

1. that seems like a ticky tac travel but was technically right I guess.

Then you have to call a block/charge immediately after this play. That is the reason I posted the play. It was not just a play that was only a travel, it involved contact that took place right after the move. It is a dilemma, but it is something that has to consider. There are many times when we call a foul but we miss the travel that took place before. And I am not really saying that you should call the travel, just stating it appears he did travel.

Peace