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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 04:02pm
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Making D1 in the Modern Age

Hello Board,

So I'm a young guy on the East Coast. Early 20's. Made a D3 and JUCO staff, did some games, yada yada, and have the desire to one day work D1. Don't really care what if it's ACC Primetime or the Big Sky, but I do have some questions:

Is it worth paying for a D1 camp ($500+) if I know no one at the camp?
Should I wait another year before shelling out the big bucks?
With all the consortiums, what is the path to D1 nowadays?

Yeah all the questions are really just different aspects of "Do I do it?", but I am curious as to how others perceive the current challenge of getting to the big stage. I talk to the older cats and hear how on this side of the country a lot of D1's are folding into the Kersey umbrella. Most people jokingly suggest I move to the West Coast as they hear it's easier to get D1. That's why I'm considering a Curtis Shaw camp even though I know no one west of VA.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 04:45pm
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To be fair, I don't know how good you are and I don't work high-level college ball, but why would you go to a D1 camp before you're even on a D2 staff? Seems like that would be a more logical (and less expensive) next step.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 04:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player989random View Post
Hello Board,

So I'm a young guy on the East Coast. Early 20's. Made a D3 and JUCO staff, did some games, yada yada, and have the desire to one day work D1. Don't really care what if it's ACC Primetime or the Big Sky, but I do have some questions:

Is it worth paying for a D1 camp ($500+) if I know no one at the camp?
Should I wait another year before shelling out the big bucks?
With all the consortiums, what is the path to D1 nowadays?

Yeah all the questions are really just different aspects of "Do I do it?", but I am curious as to how others perceive the current challenge of getting to the big stage. I talk to the older cats and hear how on this side of the country a lot of D1's are folding into the Kersey umbrella. Most people jokingly suggest I move to the West Coast as they hear it's easier to get D1. That's why I'm considering a Curtis Shaw camp even though I know no one west of VA.

I officiated women's college basketball from 1974 to 2008, so I started officiating college basketball before the days of camps. And today, if one wants to become a college (men's or women's) it requires going to camp every year until one is either picked up or released. That means that since you are now working at the NCAA Div. III, NAIA, and NJCAA level you will have to go to camp every year even if it is just your assigner's camp just to stay on his staff.

Mark, Jr., who umpires both H.S. baseball and softball went to a weekend softball mechanics clinic in Fall 2014, just to improve his softball mechanics. The person who has the clinic assigns softball for four conferences (one each: NJCAA, NAIA, NCAA-III, and NCAA-II). Guess what, MTD, Jr., has been attending his Fall clinic every year since then. This past Fall clinic, a supervisor of softball umpires for four NCAA Div. I conferences was a clinician at the camp and added him to his staff on all four conferences. That means that Mark will be attending two camp/clinics every year from now on to stay at those levels. That is just the nature of college officiating and umpiring today. Be prepared to spend your time and money to achieve your goal.

I am not sure about the other Power 5 Conferences but you are a Div. I men's official below the Power 5 Conference lever, that to make the Big 10 Men's Staff, you must be invited to the Big 10 camp to try out. I know that Big 10 process is tough because: a) because one of the Big 10 Men's on-site evaluaters was my closet mentor; b) I am a friends with two current members of the Big 10 Men's Staff; and c) one of those two started his basketball officiating career by graduating from the mandatory OhioHSAA class which I taught.

Also there is a member of this Forum who is a proud father of two officials that officiate at the Div. I level and in the G-League and can elaborate more on the path that his sons have taken; and I am sure that there are some active Div. I officials in the Forum that would probably answer, via PM, any questions that you may have.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 05:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
To be fair, I don't know how good you are and I don't work high-level college ball, but why would you go to a D1 camp before you're even on a D2 staff? Seems like that would be a more logical (and less expensive) next step.
Oh I harbor no belief I'm the next "Insert Name". I fully intend to apply for the local D2's. I just figure if I have to go these things at least 3 times I knock one out while I have the free time/spare cash.

I also have no idea how you get on D1. I have friends/know people who made D2 without D3/JUCO, and I have nothing to lose other than a lot of money.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 08:14pm
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Do it only if:

1) You have money to burn
2) You do not mind giving up some integrity
3) You have no "life" (SO, kids, career, etc.)
4) You, once you get there and made the sacrifices of 1-3 for years, do not mind getting dropped without any explanation/communication

Good luck!
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 09:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
2) You do not mind giving up some integrity
Can you elaborate?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Do it only if:

1) You have money to burn
2) You do not mind giving up some integrity
3) You have no "life" (SO, kids, career, etc.)
4) You, once you get there and made the sacrifices of 1-3 for years, do not mind getting dropped without any explanation/communication

Good luck!
So 1,3, and 4 I've heard about from others. Yet I agree with SC, can you elaborate on point 2?

EDIT: And MTD, how did you get into college officiating before the camp system? It's a bit off-topic, but some history would be cool.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 09:41pm
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Kersey likes young guys, especially if you can run the court.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 09:57pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Can you elaborate?
Nah, not enough time and not worth elaborating. Let's just say it will come into question at one point or another and one will have to make a decision regarding it.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Nah, not enough time and not worth elaborating. Let's just say it will come into question at one point or another and one will have to make a decision regarding it.


Hey I have a secret.....nah I'm not going to tell you, but instead I'll post an obvious statement "integrity will come into question and one will have to make a decision regarding it."

Most people call this LIFE.

Now you have this guy wondering whats going to happen to him that he's going to have to strip down his integrity. That's an interesting play there Bucky.
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Old Sat Feb 10, 2018, 10:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post


Hey I have a secret.....nah I'm not going to tell you, but instead I'll post an obvious statement "integrity will come into question and one will have to make a decision regarding it."

Most people call this LIFE.

Now you have this guy wondering whats going to happen to him that he's going to have to strip down his integrity. That's an interesting play there Bucky.
I have to agree. Here's a guy coming here for advice and you're basically blowing him off because you don't want to take the time to elaborate on something that's no small thing. If you don't want to elaborate on something then perhaps don't say it in the first place.
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Old Sun Feb 11, 2018, 12:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post


Hey I have a secret.....nah I'm not going to tell you, but instead I'll post an obvious statement "integrity will come into question and one will have to make a decision regarding it."

Most people call this LIFE.

Now you have this guy wondering whats going to happen to him that he's going to have to strip down his integrity. That's an interesting play there Bucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I have to agree. Here's a guy coming here for advice and you're basically blowing him off because you don't want to take the time to elaborate on something that's no small thing. If you don't want to elaborate on something then perhaps don't say it in the first place.
I hear both of you and really can't disagree. I certainly did not intend what appears to have happened. I definitely did not intend to "blow off" someone or discourage anyone. I would love to elaborate on all 4 but it just isn't feasible.

Perhaps I should have posted:

Generally speaking and without knowing your skillset...

Is it worth paying for a D1 camp ($500+) if I know no one at the camp? Yes, you need to attend a D1 camp annually to become a D1 official. Go to D2 camps annually too.

Should I wait another year before shelling out the big bucks? Probably...perhaps several years. Get a D3,D2,Juco games under your belt and network like crazy.

With all the consortiums, what is the path to D1 nowadays? Experience and networking.
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Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 01:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Do it only if:

1) You have money to burn
2) You do not mind giving up some integrity
3) You have no "life" (SO, kids, career, etc.)
4) You, once you get there and made the sacrifices of 1-3 for years, do not mind getting dropped without any explanation/communication

Good luck!
This list is utter and complete BS.

1) The money is an investment. It's not being burned. As long as you set realistic expectations and understand that camp is a great tool for improvement, even if you never make D1, that's fine.

2) Utter nonsense. Unless you consider the entire process to be an affront to your integrity, no one asks you to do anything that would bring your integrity into question. (At least, nobody asked me to.)

3) Again, this is just stupid. Camp takes several days in the summer. I did my camps with a wonderful supportive wife and a daughter. My wife loved that I had the passion to pursue it. I had a job that allowed me the flexibility in my schedule to go to camp. I had plenty of "life", but camp was important to me and my family supported that.

4) Of course you're going to mind if/when you get dropped. Everybody does; and very few leave D1 officiating completely of their own volition. (I know an official who was dropped from one of his conferences the season after working the NCAA D1 National Final.) But that doesn't mean the camp experience was a waste. You're still going to be a better official than when you started. You'll still have made friends and connections.

Set reasonable expectations, reasonable budget, and a reasonable timetable. And don't listen to Bucky.
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Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Do it only if:
...
2) You do not mind giving up some integrity
...

Good luck!
Do you have to give up some of your integrity to work the highest level you work?
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2018, 01:30pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
To be fair, I don't know how good you are and I don't work high-level college ball, but why would you go to a D1 camp before you're even on a D2 staff? Seems like that would be a more logical (and less expensive) next step.
Some of these camps are run by a person who assigns both D1 and D2. Or sometimes there are D2 assignors there as observers. Even if that's not the case, a person might go to the camp of a D1 assignor s/he respects just to get higher queality feedback.

I went to my first camp, which was run by a D1 assignor, before I'd ever worked a varsity college game. I didn't even know that there were guys there hoping to get picked up for D1. I just went because a couple college guys on my board told me to go.
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