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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
AremRed beat me to the punch.

The “it’s all about the kids” mantra.

Our job as officials includes penalizing unsporting behavior. When the coach hangs himself, we have to take care of business. It’s not about being fair to “the kids.” If anything, it’s showing them that acting like an asshat is not acceptable.
I understand and I agree with both of you on a fundamental level. With this essentially being a Rec format, and with his status at that facility, a 2nd T would have been met with zero enforcement from the staff on hand. It would have been a circus with no real meaning, and that is what I meant by enough is enough.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 02:34am
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Your promote what you permit

Unacceptable. Someone needs to run him. If not you, who? If not then, when?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 07:50am
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Losing officials is likely the only way the facility will figure out that they have an issue, and hopefully deal with that issue. Hindsight is 20/20, but I would have put it at the feet of the administrator in the office. Tell the admin that the coach is ejected and if he isn't removed from sight and sound, then you are gone. I know you said no enforcement WOULD have happen, but, to me, I feel like I'd need the lack of enforcement to actually happen before I walked off. This could have all been determined within that office before the halftime was over.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 08:00am
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I am guessing this is the guy that pays the bills and the reason the site manager does nothing. When he came into the locker room and the SM did nothing, that was clearly crossing the line and you and your partner should have left at that point. Support by partners goes both ways and if your partner didn't leave too, I think that shows up badly for him as well.

If he didn't come into the locker room, I agree that assessing he second T during the game would have been the way to go. Then if the coach/SM refuses to follow the rule (ejection), leave. "If you aren't going to follow the rules, you have no need for us to be here."


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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 11:15am
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I was assigned to do four games at this complex that has 8 courts and only does tournaments. They also form complex teams and do training for a small fee lol. I show up and have worked there a few times before so I knew the drill no big deal. I get with my partner and see the GM of the complex on the court running drills so I ask my partner and come to find out not only is he the GM of the complex but he is HC of two of the teams. I find this a huge conflict of interest but oh well. We start the game and it is going even though the GM is crying over every little call but I ignore. His player drives the lane but extends his arm and pushes off so I get him for offensive foul and the GM goes crazy. It was shocked at first that he would cry over such a obvious call but I let him vent a little until he says loud enough for the entire complex to hear "I run this place and I will make sure you never work here again" I walked over to him and said "this may be your house but its my court and you just got a T" he is furious but coach came over to calm him down. Half time hits and I go to the bathroom when I am walking back I hear him on his phone telling the assignor to get him a replacement for me. I am ticked off at this point tell my partner and decide to stay professional. We get ready to inbound the ball for the second half and he is standing so I tell him he has lost the box because of the T. He tells me he is standing and who is going to enforce it the GM and he laughs. I see now that even if I dump him he will not leave and I will have to put up with it the rest of the game. I walk over to my partner apologize and tell him I got to go and he says I completely understand. I walk over change my shoes put my coat on and start walking out. The GM says you are a POS and no sooner then he says it my partner is behind me with his coat on saying life is too short to put up with this shit. We left got a beer together and played some pool.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 11:26am
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I'm not going to say that I disagree with your actions but I think that you still have to implement the rules. If you issue a second "T" and he is ejected then he does not leave you can rule the game a forfeit and go home within the rules. You can't say if I do this he won't do that (if he is ejected he won't leave). Maybe he receives the second T and leaves the confines, the game continues without issue from there on out. Is it likely? Probably not but might as well use the tools we have to manage the game.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 11:55am
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I think some are forgetting that this is rec ball and "the rules" don't always apply.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:01pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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When coaches are so far of out control and GM is not helping, the normal principles don't apply, in my judgment. I see no point in insisting on futile gestures simply to "abide by the rules" or to "manage the game." In the two examples posters have given, there was ample justification for walking away.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:13pm
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I would have done the same thing. My partner and the league admin can finish the game out by themselves, or have the coach help, I wouldn't have cared one bit.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
I was assigned to do four games at this complex that has 8 courts and only does tournaments. They also form complex teams and do training for a small fee lol. I show up and have worked there a few times before so I knew the drill no big deal. I get with my partner and see the GM of the complex on the court running drills so I ask my partner and come to find out not only is he the GM of the complex but he is HC of two of the teams. I find this a huge conflict of interest but oh well. We start the game and it is going even though the GM is crying over every little call but I ignore. His player drives the lane but extends his arm and pushes off so I get him for offensive foul and the GM goes crazy. It was shocked at first that he would cry over such a obvious call but I let him vent a little until he says loud enough for the entire complex to hear "I run this place and I will make sure you never work here again" I walked over to him and said "this may be your house but its my court and you just got a T" he is furious but coach came over to calm him down. Half time hits and I go to the bathroom when I am walking back I hear him on his phone telling the assignor to get him a replacement for me. I am ticked off at this point tell my partner and decide to stay professional. We get ready to inbound the ball for the second half and he is standing so I tell him he has lost the box because of the T. He tells me he is standing and who is going to enforce it the GM and he laughs. I see now that even if I dump him he will not leave and I will have to put up with it the rest of the game. I walk over to my partner apologize and tell him I got to go and he says I completely understand. I walk over change my shoes put my coat on and start walking out. The GM says you are a POS and no sooner then he says it my partner is behind me with his coat on saying life is too short to put up with this shit. We left got a beer together and played some pool.


The Toledo YMCA does not have one complex but many branches through out the area. Years and years ago, one of the branches and a Sunday night men's league. One of the teams that played in it was a team made up of Y employees including the Director of the branch. On this particular evening I called a PF on the Director who took exception to my call to such an extent that I had to WHACK him. At that point he exclaims that T-ing him up was not a good idea because he was the one that signed our game fee checks. I said: "Good, here is your 2nd TF, now you can go sign our checks!" He gives me surprised look and says: "Are you tossing me?" I said: "Yes. Now go sign our checks!" My partner loved it.

MTD, Sr.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
When coaches are so far of out control and GM is not helping, the normal principles don't apply, in my judgment. I see no point in insisting on futile gestures simply to "abide by the rules" or to "manage the game." In the two examples posters have given, there was ample justification for walking away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee View Post
I would have done the same thing. My partner and the league admin can finish the game out by themselves, or have the coach help, I wouldn't have cared one bit.

I agree. Go home early and have a cold (root) beer.

MTD, Sr.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
...The GM says you are a POS ..
I wouldn't have had the discipline to not say "Man, f*** you" straight to his face. I'm still working on that aspect of self-improvement.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 01:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I said: "Good, here is your 2nd TF, now you can go sign our checks!" He gives me surprised look and says: "Are you tossing me?" I said: "Yes. Now go sign our checks!" My partner loved it.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 07, 2018, 10:17pm
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I am probably making this too black/white but this seems to be a question of only one thing: integrity

What is you integrity worth? If nothing, then succumb to the situation. If something, then do not officiate there.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 08, 2018, 01:30am
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You did what you felt you had to do as the person in the moment, not looking back in hindsight and saying "never quit" or some other platitude.

I've been in some similar situations and ultimately always had someone in the facility enforce things accordingly but in your case I'd have done the same thing and not really thought twice about it.

You have to decide what you are willing to accept as a man and if you cannot reasonably change the situation then sometimes you just have to remove yourself from it.

Sounds like you've outgrown that facility with the way its currently run. Don't look back.
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