WVU @ TCU - Flagrant 2

[Multiple Sports]

Can anyone ( Rut ) find this play ??? At the 10:20 minute mark of the 2nd half. Great discussion as to what can or can't be penalized. There was a common foul missed that led to the flagrant 2 ( IMO ) that by rule can't be called when watching the DV Sport replay st the table.

[JRutledge]

Here you go.



Peace

[bucky]

I would have went with F1. then I would have yelled at my C for ball watching and missing the hold.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Pollard's one of the best in the business, but he definitely missed that one. That's a good reminder to watch the off ball stuff in transition for me.

[Rufus]

In this day and age when we no longer bird-dog on fouls, could the officials have said one had the grab and the other had the push and that the reason they went to the replay was to judge F1 or F2?

I think they handled it correctly, just wondering if there was a way to make up for a missed call since they have tools/time on their side we don't have in HS.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Pollard's one of the best in the business, but he definitely missed that one. That's a good reminder to watch the off ball stuff in transition for me.

I do not think he saw it, mainly because it was kind of away from his view. Probably a better look for the lead, but he would be watching the ball. But if he didn't see it, he is not alone, I think a lot of us would have missed this.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Can anyone ( Rut ) find this play ??? At the 10:20 minute mark of the 2nd half. Great discussion as to what can or can't be penalized. There was a common foul missed that led to the flagrant 2 ( IMO ) that by rule can't be called when watching the DV Sport replay st the table.

I don't see why a video review can't lead to an F1 also being called on WV #15.

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't see why a video review can't lead to an F1 also being called on WV #15.

Watching live last night I had a Flagrant 1 for the wrist grab (obvious advantageous position) and a Dead Ball Contact Technical foul for the retaliation.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Watching live last night I had a Flagrant 1 for the wrist grab (obvious advantageous position) and a Dead Ball Contact Technical foul for the retaliation.

Why did they not go with that on the replay? Not familiar with all the replay rules, but it seems like an FF1 (Int in NFHS) on the wrist grab and then an FF2 (Flagrant in NFHS) for the over-the-top retaliation would be the correct ruling.

[sdoebler]

I think that there should have been a flagrant one issued to the WVU player as the contact had nothing to do with a basketball play

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Watching live last night I had a Flagrant 1 for the wrist grab (obvious advantageous position) and a Dead Ball Contact Technical foul for the retaliation.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why did they not go with that on the replay? Not familiar with all the replay rules, but it seems like an FF1 (Int in NFHS) on the wrist grab and then an FF2 (Flagrant in NFHS) for the over-the-top retaliation would be the correct ruling.

I don't necessarily see a player in the backcourt, on the opposite side of the court from the ball, and behind at least one other defender as being in an obvious advantageous position. It might have become that, but at that moment, I don't think it was.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Why did they not go with that on the replay? Not familiar with all the replay rules, but it seems like an FF1 (Int in NFHS) on the wrist grab and then an FF2 (Flagrant in NFHS) for the over-the-top retaliation would be the correct ruling.

The only way you can call the wrist grab there is either 1) call it a common foul when it occurs on the floor, or 2) determine it was a Flagrant 1 on video. There's not really a precedent for calling a wrist grab Option #2 a Flagrant 1. It's not really excessive contact, and "obvious advantageous position" is typically only called on the ball. If you somehow did call the wrist grab at the time or on video then the resulting contact becomes a technical foul and either Dead Ball Contact tech or Flagrant 2 tech (ejection).

I think missing the foul entirely is not in balance with the ejection. I think a punishment closer to 50/50 (Flagrant 1 for grab, tech for shove) or perhaps not ejecting the player for the retaliation given they missed the foul would have been more appropriate.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If you somehow did call the wrist grab at the time or on video then the resulting contact becomes a technical foul and either Dead Ball Contact tech or Flagrant 2 tech (ejection).

(Emphasis Added)
Lurker here and not my sport, but I don't think this is right. Or if it is I've watched a lot of basketball where they get this wrong. When they go to review and determine that they missed a flagrant foul, the action after the foul typically stands. The shove remains a live ball foul because you can't change it into dead ball activity on review. Is it not so?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by youngump

(Emphasis Added)
Lurker here and not my sport, but I don't think this is right. Or if it is I've watched a lot of basketball where they get this wrong. When they go to review and determine that they missed a flagrant foul, the action after the foul typically stands. The shove remains a live ball foul because you can't change it into dead ball activity on review. Is it not so?

You are correct. You can't retroactively make the ball dead based on a missed foul.

[DrPete]

At the 36 second mark of the video clip, you can see the WV coach ask his player "What did you do?"
He knew that his own player had done something to get that reaction from the TCU player.