Coaches Behavior

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by ODog

Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's definitely possible!), but weren't you the poster who within the last year or so spoke with pride about having never issued a coach a technical in a varsity game?

Wow! Quite the memory!

In the past yearish, I have handed out a couple of Ts to players. None to coaches. That is what I meant about taking care of business. I do not tolerate unruly behavior from kids. Usually a stern verbal warning before we get a necessary technical works for me. If you see it coming and know the history of behavior of the participants, you can usually stop inappropriate behavior/actions before they really get going.

I don't believe we were talking about unruly coaches were we? I thought it was fans we were talking about?

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

That does not mean I am a perfect official. It means that I have been fortunate enough to work for good coaches that don't throw their anger at me. The day will come I'm sure.

From the sounds of it, most of you guys work teams that you are not familiar with and don't see very often. It's the opposite for me. We know pretty much ALL of the teams, coaches, and players well. Not socially or personally, but from seeing them so many times on the court. I believe that makes our job in this area easier. The coaches and players know what the lines are and not to cross them.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

I have heard some guys make similar statements. I have also seen these same guys get raked over hot coals by coaches. Don't be "that guy".

[VaTerp]

Perhaps the discussion about fan behavior and removing spectators should have its own thread since this originated as one about coach/player behavior. Entirely different animals IMO.

With regard to the official warning I had it in my head- likely from being stubborn, resistant to change, or just ego- that I was not going to use it.

I've only had one partner use it and though I didn't like the way we administered it; it worked like a charm. Got a whiny coach to basically act like a church mouse the rest of the game.

Based on that and the experiences shared here I think I will now incorporate it into my games. Maybe it would have helped avoid some of the Ts and poor behavior I've had recently as intended.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by CJP

I have heard some guys make similar statements. I have also seen these same guys get raked over hot coals by coaches. Don't be "that guy".

I hear ya.

It may be hard for most to understand, but the level of respect and professionalism we receive is great. Now, some of the lesser officials may have a harder time than I do.

No, I'm not a perfect or the best official, but I do a good job and coaches know that I do a good job and that I am willing to communicate with them when they have questions. Whether it be my judgment or whatever. They don't reach a boiling point with me............not yet anyway.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

There is no line..... you have never T'd them.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

There is no line..... you have never T'd them.

To be fair, we don't know that. Maybe he's just been the most fortunate official to ever bless this forum in terms of coach's behavior. Maybe the SD stands for San Diego and the coaches are always in a good mood due to the beautiful weather and scenery.

We can keep attacking the source and most likely, he's missed opportunities to serve coaches some deserving tea.

But I still agree with him that, without additional context, tossing spectators for saying "you're terrible" or "you should be ashamed of yourself" or even "you're cheating our girls" is not good practice and not something ANY of the HS assigners I have ever work for would support privately.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

To be fair, we don't know that. Maybe he's just been the most fortunate official to ever bless this forum in terms of coach's behavior. Maybe the SD stands for San Diego and the coaches are always in a good mood due to the beautiful weather and scenery.

We can keep attacking the source and most likely, he's missed opportunities to serve coaches some deserving tea.

But I still agree with him that, without additional context, tossing spectators for saying "you're terrible" or "you should be ashamed of yourself" or even "you're cheating our girls" is not good practice and not something ANY of the HS assigners I have ever work for would support privately.

To be fair, the assumption that the context did not warrant ejection is just not fair. Why not give the benefit of the doubt to the official if you were not there to see it for yourself?

To be fair, unless you are an "assignor", maybe you should not speak for your assignor.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by CJP

To be fair, the assumption that the context did not warrant ejection is just not fair. Why not give the benefit of the doubt to the official if you were not there to see it for yourself?

To be fair, unless you are an "assignor", maybe you should not speak for your assignor.

There is a reason why I said, "without additional context."

And I know my assingors well enough and have discussed and observed enough situations with them that I feel more than comfortable saying what I said.

So you can continue to be as snide as you'd like and I will continue to offer my opinion and perspective in response to things posted as I see fit.

ETA- And it's funny how we pick and choose when to give officials the "benefit of the doubt." Your comments indicate you are not giving SD Ref the same benefit of the doubt in his interactions with coaches. J Rut offers wise words on getting caught up in personal experiences but this is also a forum where officials share those experiences and people comment on them. Sometimes others can learn from them and sometimes they can't.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

There is a reason why I said, "without additional context."

And I know my assingors well enough and have discussed and observed enough situations with them that I feel more than comfortable saying what I said.

So you can continue to be as snide as you'd like and I will continue to offer my opinion and perspective in response to things posted as I see fit.

ETA- And it's funny how we pick and choose when to give officials the "benefit of the doubt." Your comments indicate you are not giving SD Ref the same benefit of the doubt in his interactions with coaches. J Rut offers wise words on getting caught up in personal experiences but this is also a forum where officials share those experiences and people comment on them. Sometimes others can learn from them and sometimes they can't.

Fair enough. I have questions about your assignors mentality. What does "support privately" mean? Are there two sets of standards? Would they support the ejections in the public eye?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by CJP

Fair enough. I have questions about your assignors mentality. What does "support privately" mean? Are there two sets of standards? Would they support the ejections in the public eye?

Good question.

When I say support privately I mean that I've seen and discussed situations with assignors who will "back" some of their official's decisions and actions in conversations with administrators and coaches but will privately indicate to the official that going forward, they would like things handled in a different way.

I will give an example from a few years ago that actually dealt with spectator behavior. In a game I worked, one of my partners confronted a fan before going to the locker room for half time. My other partner and I grabbed him before it really escalated to anything. The official explained that the fan made a personal comment about his hair and that struck a nerve with him.

The incident got back to our assingor who spoke with the site administrator about making sure they have the necessary protocols in place to strongly discourage and address fans making personal verbal attacks against officials.

Privately he admonished the official for his actions and reiterated to go through game management if/when an incident like that occurred again.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CJP

...

To be fair, unless you are an "assignor", maybe you should not speak for your assignor.

Some of us know our assignors well enough to know their philosophies and expectations.

And supervisors, at times, back officials publicly while admonishing them privately.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Some of us know our assignors well enough to know their philosophies and expectations.

Unless I hear from an assignor, I will not take anyone's word who speaks on their behalf. So far, one assignor has spoken up on this thread.

Originally Posted by Raymond

supervisors, at times, back officials publicly while admonishing them privately.

These types of people should not be in charge of anything.

This dead horse has been beat enough. Have a great day.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by CJP

These types of people should not be in charge of anything.

Why? Would you suggest that assigners throw their officials under the bus to administrators and coaches as an alternative?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CJP

Unless I hear from an assignor, I will not take anyone's word who speaks on their behalf. So far, one assignor has spoken up on this thread.



These types of people should not be in charge of anything.

...

Those kinds of people are in charge of many things, and successfully so.

And it doesn't matter whose word you're willing to accept. What you believe has zero effect on anybody's else relationship with their assignor(s).

[JRutledge]

We cannot get caught up in personal experiences. There are always going to be things that one person would take care of and another would pass on. I know just in this year I have some interesting situations where I know I passed on and others I felt I had to address. Sometimes it is not what is actually said, but the behavior with the actions.

I had a coach last night get all upset because he had a player get fouled and he went to the "my players are going to get hurt" BS line. I then told him without hesitation, "First of all, stop telling me what to do and if you do not want your players to get hurt, basketball is not the sport to play." I would not have done that normally, but it was a total over reaction to a couple of very, minor contact fouls (that were called BTW) as if he had players getting knocked out. It also did not help that he had tattoos down his arm and he looked like a biker rather than a high school basketball coach. But to each his own on that one. I later gave him a warning for his little display and he realized I was not playing with him. Years ago that would not have been the reaction of a coach IMO, but now every little thing seems to set them off.

Peace