Administrative T - Team Foul?

[crosscountry55]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but nothing has changed in NFHS in that administrative technicals count as team fouls, correct?

Watching a respected varsity crew, and they started the game with an admin T. Thinking they didn’t catch that the table didn’t include it, I reminded the table. Got a thumbs up and they added it to the board. A minute later the crew notices it on the board and has it taken off.

It made my stomach turn. I just want to make sure I’m not wrong. Close physical game; this is going to cost a team a bonus free throw or two in a few minutes. I’m going to leave before I see that.


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[Rich]

All fouls are team fouls.


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[billyu2]

It's right there in the technical foul penalty summary, p.72. ( My book says "team foul county.") Anyone live there?

[ChuckS]

Only starting my 3rd year, so I am not sure, but would this be considered a breach of etiquette? As a fan, an official "interfering" with the game?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Only starting my 3rd year, so I am not sure, but would this be considered a breach of etiquette? As a fan, an official "interfering" with the game?

Generally yes. Depending on the situation, if anything, you may go into the locker room at halftime (or postgame) and mention something or better yet ask a question, but it depends on how things are generally accepted and handled in your area. Keep in mind your input may or may not be welcomed. And if whatever you're offering up is wrong, you may get your ass handed to you accordingly.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Rich

All fouls are team fouls.

cough, cough. Indirect technicals. cough, cough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

All fouls are team fouls.


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Originally Posted by Scrapper1

cough, cough. Indirect technicals. cough, cough.

Well, they actually are. An Indirect is just part of a direct technical foul charged to someone else....and the infraction is recorded as a team foul too, but just once.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Well, they actually are. An Indirect is just part of a direct technical foul charged to someone else....and the infraction is recorded as a team foul too, but just once.

I'm not a big fan of that explanation. The bottom line is that you're charging a direct T to one person and charging an indirect T to a different person. I don't think it's helpful to say that those are the same foul. JMO.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Only starting my 3rd year, so I am not sure, but would this be considered a breach of etiquette? As a fan, an official "interfering" with the game?

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind. I was right behind the table, 100% sure of the rule, and had helping my fellow officials avoid an embarrassing oversight in mind. I certainly wouldn’t mind an assist like this if I had made a mistake. Heck....I’d thank the person later.

All the more stupefied and frustrated was I when they took it off the board. No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. If I had it to do over again I’d just STFU.



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[Rich]

The nitpicking exception to prove a rule.

And OP, if I did this and you helped me, I'd buy the first round.


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[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Rich

The nitpicking exception to prove a rule.

I won't deny that. Nevertheless, if you state that ALL fouls blah blah blah, and you don't state the one exception, people WILL start putting 2 team fouls on the board for a bench T.

For those of us who are used to it, it's not a big deal. But I can tell you from my umpteen years of teaching the new officials' classes for my board, it's a very confusing concept for newer officials. I think it's important to state it clearly.

[Raymond]

If I'm working the game I wouldn't want the table changing things based on a spectator's input without informing me. What if the spectator was an official who didn't know the rule and gave incorrect info to the table?

[bob jenkins]

Assuming the OP is "known" to the officials, I'd rather that the OP get the attention of one of the officials at a TO or between quarters to ask / explain.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Generally yes. Depending on the situation, if anything, you may go into the locker room at halftime (or postgame) and mention something or better yet ask a question, but it depends on how things are generally accepted and handled in your area. Keep in mind your input may or may not be welcomed. And if whatever you're offering up is wrong, you may get your ass handed to you accordingly.

Yes, could be a breach. Agree with Smitty.

I have had 2 games where I was a spectator directly behind the scorer's (acquaintance) table. There was a T and the refs did not discuss how it should be handled (team, individual,etc) with the table. Scorer turned to me and asked. The scorer took/accepted my input accordingly. Turned out to be a non-factor.

This is one reason why I provide a very small Technical Foul chart to the table. Can certainly come in handy and can even be taped to the scorer's device. That table can then reference it in the future if necessary. We have all had tables that had varying degrees of experience.