Response to player protests

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

With all of the attention on player protests during the national anthem recently, have you ever had to deal with this at a game? What would you do, if anything, if a player (or team) took a knee during the anthem?

This happened in my area last season and the school stopped playing the anthem before games.

I've had officials tell me that if a team took a knee, they would refuse to officiate the game and leave the venue.

So, has this happened in one of your games? What would/did you do in such a situation?

Here's a couple of random thoughts....

1) Free speech generally protects an individual from government interference with that speech. Where i am the overwhelming majority of schools are public school and are part of the government. While schools can get involved with free speech issues more than other governments, i am contracted by that entity and will not do anything that will expand or detract from my contractual responsibilities or make the situation worse because I am a contractor.

2) Although i might disagree with the tactics... and although what I see as disrespect pains me and disturbs me and .. I wonder how many many of these individuals truly understand what is means to be free or if they understand how privileged they are compared to the rest of the world....

but at the end of the day I know that as someone who has served in the oldest military organization in the country for nearly 39 years, someone who has taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution, an oath that pledges even my life in its defense that in part its been me that has answered the call of this country to ensure that they have the ability to protest in this manner.

Are there problems with the country? Yep... are we perfect? Nope! But we have it better than many across the world. Much of the controversy is generated because we have little respect for each other... if we worked on respect for each other.... if we showed respect for the flag and our respected institutions we may be able to come together to resolve our differences.

I am a defender of of their peaceful right to protest no matter how much it pains me.

[joelpoli]

Kelvin,
Thank you for your service.

[JRutledge]

I have been in several games where people did not celebrate the Anthem in several different ways. For one many people in certain places do not stand or put their hand over their heart. So if I got upset every time someone did not do something they were supposed to based on the standards of this practice, then I would have done something long time ago. Now I have been involved in games where some kind of "protest" has taken place in both football and basketball.

My father is buried in a Veteran Cemetary and I grew up respecting this flag, but I had a mother that was in the Civil Rights Movement where she was in a lawsuit for discrimination when they segregated a school in Florida. So I want this country to uphold the standards they have set. And protest is supposed to be uncomfortable and supposed to draw attention.

I have a political position on many things. If you are like some here you know that if you see my page, I can be very political. But it is not my place to tell those what to do personally with their politics outside of the game. I am also a person that officiated both a football and basketball game at a school whose mascot was the "Rebel Flag" and as an African-American who is deeply offended by that flag, I said nothing in my role as an official. I did my job and moved on. And that alone is much more offensive than some kneeling during the Anthem.

Peace

[SC Official]

I respect protesters' message even if I don't agree with it or I don't agree with the method.

But what I think people get wrong is the scope to which the First Amendment applies. It protects no right to free speech on your employer's dime. It also definitely protects no right to free speech in your capacity as an independent contractor.

Officials that choose to do this have no "rights" to assert if an assigner shows them the door. All this talk I hear about "rights" on social media and television–it's just not true in many cases.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I respect protesters' message even if I don't agree with it or I don't agree with the method.

But what I think people get wrong is the scope to which the First Amendment applies. It protects no right to free speech on your employer's dime. It also definitely protects no right to free speech in your capacity as an independent contractor.

Officials that choose to do this have no "rights" to assert if an assigner shows them the door. All this talk I hear about "rights" on social media and television–it's just not true in many cases.

Yes, that is true, but employers are not going to get rid of players they have a "contact" with or have nothing in the CBA to take action with just cause. So the First Amendment only involves the government and action from the government. When Trump opened his mouth, he kind of used his position to take action against the players. The owners and players took action at least in the NFL situation.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...

I have a political position on many things. If you are like some here you know that if you see my page, I can be very political. But it is not my place to tell those what to do personally with their politics outside of the game. I am also a person that officiated both a football and basketball game at a school whose mascot was the "Rebel Flag" and as an African-American who is deeply offended by that flag, I said nothing in my role as an official. I did my job and moved on. And that alone is much more offensive than some kneeling during the Anthem.

Peace

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I would be deeply offended if any iteration of the "Southern pride" flag posted next to our nation's colors during the national anthem. But I would still officiate the game, and then request not to be sent back to that school.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I would be deeply offended if any iteration of the "Southern pride" flag posted next to our nation's colors during the national anthem. But I would still officiate the game, and then request not to be sent back to that school.

An appropriate response, and one I would take as well.

[JRutledge]

Just for the record, I worked a game on Friday where the schools and many of the fans never stood. The players and coaches stood, but not the fans. And like maybe nearly half of the fans never stood.

Again, I wish we would get rid of this practice or change the song. But that is another conversation for another day.

Peace

An official I know walked out on a game last week after a player knelt. Suspended 1.5 years by state association for violating game contract.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

My father is buried in a Veteran Cemetery and I grew up respecting this flag, but I had a mother that was in the Civil Rights Movement where she was in a lawsuit for discrimination when they segregated a school in Florida. So I want this country to uphold the standards they have set.

JRutledge: You should be very proud of both of your parents. Very proud. They're both heroes.

During World War II, my Dad, my hero, an Army Staff Sergeant, fought his way from North Africa, across Sicily, and up the Apennine Mountains in Italy, over some of Europe's most difficult terrain under some of the worst weather conditions found anywhere during World War II. He was eventually awarded a medal for his heroism in the Battle of Rome (after which he traded his carbine for a typewriter after the Army discovered that he went to business school and could type).

As kids, every national holiday (they weren't always on Mondays back then) my Dad proudly displayed our family's (all three of his bothers served) American Flag, and he made a point of telling my brother and me why he was displaying the flag on that particular special day. He's no longer with us, so I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't risk his life and didn't fight his way across Italy for a piece of red, white, and blue colored cloth, or a poem matched with music from a British song, both that symbolized liberty, freedom, and justice; but rather, for the actual liberty, actual freedom, and actual justice (not just symbols) that we have in this wonderful country.

"With liberty and justice for all". Remember when we all recited that at the beginning of school every day? Did we mean it?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

JRutledge: You should be very proud of both of your parents. Very proud. They're both heroes.

During World War II, my Dad, my hero, an Army Staff Sergeant, fought his way from North Africa, across Sicily, and up the Apennine Mountains in Italy, over some of Europe's most difficult terrain under some of the worst weather conditions found anywhere during World War II. He was eventually awarded a medal for his heroism in the Battle of Rome (after which he traded his carbine for a typewriter after the Army discovered that he went to business school and could type).

As kids, every national holiday (they weren't always on Mondays back then) my Dad proudly displayed our family's (all three of his bothers served) American Flag, and he made a point of telling my brother and me why he was displaying the flag on that particular special day. He's no longer with us, so I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure that he didn't risk his life and didn't fight his way across Italy for a piece of red, white, and blue colored cloth, or a poem matched with music from a British song, that symbolized liberty, freedom, and justice; but rather, for the actual liberty, freedom, and justice, that we have in this wonderful country.

"With liberty and justice for all". Remember when we all recited that at the beginning of school every day? Did we mean it?

Your best post ever.

[Rich]

I'm guessing some players knelt last night.

I wouldn't know. We were at the 20 yard line, facing the flag behind the end zone. All the players were behind us.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Your best post ever.

Even I agree.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Even I agree.

Agreed, that was an awesome post.

Happy early Yom Kippur, MP. I'm basing that off of your signature.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Here's a couple of random thoughts....

1) Free speech generally protects an individual from government interference with that speech. Where i am the overwhelming majority of schools are public school and are part of the government. While schools can get involved with free speech issues more than other governments, i am contracted by that entity and will not do anything that will expand or detract from my contractual responsibilities or make the situation worse because I am a contractor.

2) Although i might disagree with the tactics... and although what I see as disrespect pains me and disturbs me and .. I wonder how many many of these individuals truly understand what is means to be free or if they understand how privileged they are compared to the rest of the world....

but at the end of the day I know that as someone who has served in the oldest military organization in the country for nearly 39 years, someone who has taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution, an oath that pledges even my life in its defense that in part its been me that has answered the call of this country to ensure that they have the ability to protest in this manner.

Are there problems with the country? Yep... are we perfect? Nope! But we have it better than many across the world. Much of the controversy is generated because we have little respect for each other... if we worked on respect for each other.... if we showed respect for the flag and our respected institutions we may be able to come together to resolve our differences.

I am a defender of of their peaceful right to protest no matter how much it pains me.

Thank you for your service! Saying thanks isn't nearly enough...