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Old Tue May 29, 2001, 09:58pm
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My youngest's team attended a Metro tournament this past weekend and I saw some questionable calls that her manager called time and questioned.........(the manager seemed satisfied on all three and went back to his position)

Here they are in order......
(remember....I am only getting the managers side of the story....but he did not question any of them after the explanation from the umpire).

1. Ball hit to F6.......throw pulls F3 into the path of runner........F3 makes tag and the collision causes the ball to come loose from F3's glove.......Umpire calls OUT...
EXPLANATION.....F3 had control of the ball during the tag.......it was the collision that caused the ball to come loose. Manager asked if the runner intentionally tried to knock the ball loose........Umpire says no.......the throw carried F3 into the play......but she tagged the runner......therefore she is out.....

2. Shallow pop-up in front of the plate.......F1 rushes in and gloves the ball.....her momentum carries her forward for several steps into foul territory........she finally loses her ballance and falls to the ground where the ball comes lose. UMPIRE has already called an out while F1 is still reeling forwards..........he tells coach that F1 held the ball for 2 seconds and that the ground cannot cause a drop.

3. Bases loaded.......ball hit to F5 playing in.......she gloves the ball and beats the runner advancing from third to the plate.......she touches the plate, turns and while taking the ball from her glove.....drops it.....Umpire calls OUT......then safe after the miscue.......Umpire tells coach that she did not have control of the ball......therefore he changed his out to a safe.

I saw all three plays this weekend.......but just tonight got the (2nd hand) information from the Manager.......

I feel that all three of these calls were protestable.......

Whay say you??

Joel

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Old Tue May 29, 2001, 10:20pm
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Joel, making a snap judgment on the three (3)
issues, I at this point would say 1 and 2 are
protestable, by rules, but I am kinda leaning towards a
judgement called having been made on 3. Have
not looked at any rules, just got in from doing
back to back 12U games, 19-3 and 28-17, and
that is another story.
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Old Wed May 30, 2001, 12:17pm
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Speaking ASA

1 Good call since the umpire ruled the fielder had control of the ball at the time of the tag. There is no requirement for the fielder to disengage from the runner to get the out call.
2 Umpire needs a clinic, but with the exception of the "ground" statement is not protestable.
3 Bad call, lost one of the 42 for no reason. Protestable only if the umpire makes a statement saying that the defensive player must have control for a certain period after tagging the base.


Remember, this is all based on second, well, now it's third hand information.

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Old Wed May 30, 2001, 01:38pm
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Joel,

I think all three were bad calls, with the possible exception of #1 a HTBT call. However I don't think #1 and #3 are protestable since they are based on the umpire's judgement however bad that might be. #2 may be protestable based on the statements made by the umpire after the fact.

JMO,
--Sam
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Old Wed May 30, 2001, 08:05pm
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Boy, after taking time to read and review, I
blew all three of the calls. I have to agree
with Mike, none protestabe. Appear to be
judgement, however bad it was.
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that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover."
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Old Thu May 31, 2001, 09:52pm
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OK........

Ok.........I saw all three plays........however, I was looking at them through a Dads/Umpires eyes.......

Play 1: Ball comes lose because of the tag........I have safe.....? Judgement?

If umpire says tag knocks ball loose......protestable......ball comes loose after tag......not protestable?

Play 2: Pretty much agreed........player does not have control of her body and loses the ball when she falls. No catch.

Play 3: Player loses the ball during a voluntary release......I do NOT have a dropped ball......runner should be out......

Maybe umpire judgement.........maybe not.......depends on how they word their response to the coach.

Joel

Thanks for your responses.........
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Old Fri Jun 01, 2001, 12:04pm
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Re: OK........

Quote:
Originally posted by Gulf Coast Blue
Play 1: Ball comes lose because of the tag........I have safe.....? Judgement?

If umpire says tag knocks ball loose......protestable......ball comes loose after tag......not protestable?

Yep, your correct on this one and I needed to be more specific. This is judgement. For that not to be called an out in my judgement, I would need to know if the ball came loose when the player made the tag. If the fielder doesn't lose the ball upon contact, I will be ruling the runner out. If it did come out when touched to the runner, then all bets are off and it's "game on!"

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